--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "seventhray1" <steve.sundur@...> wrote: Somebody tell me that I am a sap. Somebody tell me that this is all made up. Because Vaj's responses sound credible to me.
Stevie Wonderboy: What about Robin's responses? He is saying that Vaj is lying, is misrepresenting the facts, is a busybody, is fantasizing, is obsessive, is rude, is perverse. For (assuming you are serious) to have this experience of "Vaj's responses" ["sound credible to me"] must mean, by contrast, that Robin's responses are not credible, are evasive, are *equivocal*, are defensive, are mendacious. Because I am saying that Vaj's responses are *not* credible; for you they are credible; so why not take the logical and inevitable next step and declare Robin's responses, in juxtaposition to Vaj's, to be (at the very least) unconvincing. There is no alternative for you, Steve; you have to draw this conclusion. So, please, for my sake, since you avowedly are a sincere person, allow me to see what I don't at all see now; namely, that you are in fact the biggest sap at FFL. But your sappiness is an unconscious defence mechanism to escape from having to bear too much reality. Something like that. I say you are doing your predictable number here, Steve; and that you get a certain secret gratification from being ornery. What you have declared in this post makes me out to be a liar. Am I a liar, Steve? I was there. All this which Vaj refers to happened to me. You like seeing a worm inside a rose? Oh, what a pretty worm; I think the worm is more beautiful than the rose. . . Read that five-parter yet, Stevie Boy? Anyhow, you can see I am on the run here, because this comment of yours really upset me, and goddamn it if it hasn't ruined my Christmas. I hope I can over it, Steve, but it seems if you don't get the 8th degree, your metaphysical tic will continue. Now please do a good deed here, Steve, and just add one more sentence to what you say here: "And Robin seems like he is not telling the truth at all." You seem one hundred percent more convinced about the veracity of Vaj's post than Vaj himself is, since he hardly attempted to rebut a single thing I said in response to his post. Think about it, Stevie: Are you a dormant pyromaniac or something? Merry Christmas. By the way have you taken a St Louis patent out on using purple when you epigrammatically tease us here at FFL? I wonder what would happen to you if we took away all your purple crayons. "He shoots! He scores!" But if it's not the Blues, Stevie sulksand sometimes even goes a little further, and tries to pay off the referees. Personally equivocaland it's a bad habit of yours, Steve. You might think about controlling it. It makes you into a little saboteurgetting a thrill out of putting bubblegum on shoes that are not your own. > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj <vajradhatu@> wrote: > > > > > > On Dec 27, 2011, at 2:14 PM, maskedzebra wrote: > > > > > Vaj: There's more evidence to suggest this, as a common 'bragging > > > claim' of Carlsen followers was the fact that he wrote "The > > > Discovery of Grace" with commentary (I believe, or one of his > > > tomes) by staying up all night and simply dictating it, in one go. > > > To us rabid TMers this was just more evidence of "enlightenment" > > > when, in 20/20 retrospect it was more evidence of hypomania run > amuck. > > > > > > Robin: There is no "commentary" in The Discovery of Grace. And I > > > never dictated anything. I wrote in a state of inspiration, but > > > always alone. It felt (in writing anything while in Unity) as if > > > this must have been Maharishi's experience of writing The Science > > > of Being and Art of Living. Everything was written in longhand. And > > > the writing was always very neat. I consider those books an > > > indictment of my enlightenmentthat is to say, proof of the > final > > > non-objective (not congruent with reality) status of my Unity > > > Consciousness. > > > > They did seem rather impressive at the time. And I'm sure to many TM > > folk, they still would. > > > > I must have been thinking of 'the sutras of the personal' or > > something like that. > > > > > > > > > > > Zarzari: I've seen it happen before to other "gurus" who set > > > up shop based on self-announced (and never verfied, > > > even by their own teachers) "enlightenment." > > > > > > Vaj: While some passing remarks of Maheshiji were at first used to > > > prop up his claim of "Unity", later this was not enough. This > > > culminated in RWC's court case against M. where it was required > > > that M. respond on tape declaring or denying RWC's "enlightenment. > > > This was done and a tape was delivered to the court in Ottumwa, as > > > with baited breath they awaited the final verdict, - which > > > consisted of Maheshiji grunting a "noew" to the tape recorder. > > > > > > Robin: Maharishi summoned me to Seelisberg several months after > > > acting out my meta-theatre of enlightenment and 'individuation'. > > > There I talked to him personally, and while he did not exactly say: > > > Go to it, Robin Boy! he nevertheless said nothing that would > > > indicate that I should attempt to stop what I was doing. About six > > > months later he sent one of his secretaries to observe and reflect > > > upon what was going on among the TM teachers in the city where I > > > was acting out my role as the enlightened man, and causing such > > > fierce controversy among the teachers there. > > > > Yes, I remember you speaking (and writing of the Sunnyside > > experience). Indeed I liked the house. Charming. > > > > > Once again there was no move to inhibit me in what I was doing. > > > Maharishi's secretary stayed at the same residence where I and a > > > number of initiators were living. We got along famously. > > > > > > There were other phone calls from Seelisberg, other messages from > > > Maharishimeanwhile the show went on. Without any formal > > > interference whatsoever from Maharishi. He had seven years in which > > > to put a stop to this enlightenment nonsense, and he scrupulously > > > withheld any censorious comments. > > > > > > I forced him to confess not only the validity of my enlightenment, > > > but evenhere is where I went too far [not to say that I was in > a > > > hallucinatory state to begin withbut then, so was Maharishi > > > himself]the superiority of my own version of the Sidhis. > > > > Yes, that would have been the last straw. And I can understand why. > > > > > His back was up against the wall, and he did indeed make these > > > gruff sounds nixing my enlightenment and my innovative updating of > > > the Sidhis. But the ambiguity surrounding all this was too obvious. > > > There was no sense of triumph for the MIU establishment; nor was > > > there any sense of having learned Maharishi's true estimate of my > > > enlightenment. It was all very murky, and I just continued to do > > > what I was doing. > > > > Yep, that's pretty much how I remember it. > > > > > Vaj: So the claim from his guru is that "no, he was not > enlightened". > > > > > > Robin: There was nevereven in the mind of Bevan, who played the > > > audio tape of Maharishi in court that dayany clear cut evidence > > > that actually altered anyone's understanding of what was going on. > > > Maharishi it is true, did not endorse me as I was certain he would; > > > but at the same time his actual words on that tape did nothing to > > > clarify or resolve anything. As everyone realized who heard the > > > tape or subsequently found out about its contents. > > > > I saw your expression the instant you emerged from the courthouse. > > The instant I saw your expression and those of your entourage, I knew > > what the answer had been. That's all I needed to see. > > > > > Vaj: His behaviors continued to escalate and I believe, to this > > > very day, if RWC sets foot in the state of Iowa, he would be > > > detained for 40 days in the Jefferson Co. prison - possibly longer, > > > since he skipped off to Victoria to escape his fate. > > > > > > Robin: There is a complex legal history to all of what followed > > > after Maharishi's audio tape. Which included the conscious ignoring > > > of the ruling that I must not hold my seminars within a certain > > > geographically defined area deemed by the judge to constitute a > > > violation of the territorial rights of MIU. I was found in contempt > > > of court; there was an appeal. The contempt of court ruling was > > > narrowly upheld, and the legal consequence of this was that I > > > should be detained in the manner in which Vaj has described here. > > > Plus pay court costs. > > > > > > All this occurred within the inexorable spontaneity of my > > > experience of a cosmic drama, over which I had no sayeven in my > > > own actions [I have discussed this principle before in various > > > posts]. I was a pure witness to all that was happening around me. > > > This is what it is like to be in Unity Consciousness. > > > > Well, ignoring relative circumstances is never a good thing. At least > > they didn't throw you in jail - which seemed more the heavy-handed > > handling of Lenny than anything reasonable. But clearly, MIU was > > worried. > > > > > Zarzari: The thing that causes me to believe in this theory > > > is the fact that RWC refuses to even consider it, > > > even as a possibility. *His* subjective view is the > > > only possible explanation. That's pretty much classic > > > NPD/hypomania. > > > > > > Robin: Judy has done a pretty good job of demolishing this > > > diagnosis. Zarzari, right from the beginning when you came to post > > > at FFL you had an intense bias; you waited until taking your leave > > > of absence, to come out with it directly; but it was always there > > > in everything you wrote. You have escaped detection in this regard, > > > for your motives were always under a compulsion which would vitiate > > > any claims of fairness or objectivity in this matter. You were only > > > about saying what you finally said: this MZ guy, he is a nutcase. > > > Interesting that the credibility of Turq immediately trumped > > > everything that Judy had been explaining to you: in that moment you > > > revealed your uncontrollable agenda. You have impeached yourself, > > > zarzari. > > > > > > Vaj: Yep. > > > > > > Robin: One of Vaj's more authoritative remarks. Carries with it the > > > serene and magisterial disinterestedness which reflects how active > > > and dominant is the good conscience of our pal Vaj. > > > > > > Vaj: I wonder what his mother Norah - an esteemed and > > > groundbreaking Ph.D. psychologist - would have said? I cannot help > > > hear her voice in the psychobabble of Robin interspersed in his > > > lingo back then. But if IIRC, she did not approve. She may have > > > even been declared "demonic" - a certain, real shunning for anyone > > > in the World Teacher Seminar. She left this world however in 2000, > > > so we may not ever know, but it's an interesting part of the RWC > > > story: boy raised by glass ceiling breaking female psychologist. > > > > > > Robin: All of this is simply ridiculous. Vaj attempts to do a > > > striptease with respect to the incomplete and fragmentary and > > > desultoryand often falseinformation he has about this > Robin guy. > > > But when he starts to tease us, we soon discoverthis admittedly > is > > > an intuitionhe is a eunuch, so there really is nothing to get > > > aroused about: he is sexually irrelevant. The idea of bringing in > > > one's deceased mother in order to score points: how gauche and > > > morally grotesque is this? > > > > > > But Vaj, he knows no shame. He is the would-be Wikipedia for Robin; > > > but his facts are all askew and his perspective fatally incoherent. > > > He knows much less about me than he knows about being a TM > > > initiator. I categorically reject the context within which he > > > presents his unreliable information about me. Walter Mitty > > > archivist and fantasist to the very end. > > > > So your mother inspired you in no real way? Is that what you'd have > > us believe? I'm not swallowing it Robindra. Feel free to answer > > offlist if you like. > > > > > Vaj: And I wonder how many present day psychologists she inspired? > > > Perhaps many. IMO, Dr. Norah Carlsen, Ph.D. is the more interesting > > > story I'd like to hear. My belated condolences on the passing of > > > this incredible woman. > > > > > > Robin: Vaj: will you just shut up about my mother? You know nothing > > > about her. You know nothing about me. You never met me. You are a > > > victim of a disturbing obsession, and I wish you would get over it. > > > > I remember getting yelled at by you once on a course, does that > > count? You even had a bad temper back then. And I do see to remember > > several things about your mother. Where else would I have heard them? > > > > > There are standards of decency and taste, Vaj: You are bereft of > > > what is required as the most minimal sense of discretion in order > > > to have a civil and civilized conversation with an adult human > > > being. I wish you would stop it. What can I do to touch your > > > conscience, Vaj? > > > > If it's truly that sensitive for you, say no more. I don't feel a > > need to talk about it, and it's obviously difficult for you. It > > merely seemed she was a remarkable person we'd heard so little about. > > >
