I'll have to admit that when I first read your "Yo Mama" routine about Oprah I saw it first through my white, middle-class lens and found it offensive. It puzzled me that you were being so "mean", but once you explained your intentions and point of view I understood what you were saying and where you were coming from.
>From what I know of you on this forum, my working assumptions are that you are >a good, kind and thoughtful person, blessed (or cursed) with a pretty wicked >and snarky sense of humor. That's why I was initially puzzled by what I >perceived as "mean" jokes, but later, when you stated what your intentions >were, understood and accepted that point of view, rather than persist that my >first take was the correct one and that you were dissembling by clarifying. As you point out, FFL is a pretty peculiar audience to try out new material on. *** --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "curtisdeltablues" <curtisdeltablues@...> wrote: > > That was really interesting Marek. When I dated in the black community I > didn't hang out with her out-of-town family. Some of this openness about > topics comes out in blues songs. I have to change some lyrics that used to > be a big hoot back in the day, but would make me seem misogynistic today. I > stay clear of that material because it just isn't worth it. > > The weight thing is more subtle because of the different cultural views of > it. The references to my "Turkey Legged" woman, which is clearly > affectionate, I keep in even though many white eyebrows raise before they > laugh. Most black people just go straight to laughter without the "is this > OK" pause. > > I've got a big legged woman, meat shak'n on her bone, > > I've got a big legged woman, meat shak'n on her bone, > > Every time she shakes it, another man's gunna leave his home. > > Blind Boy Fuller > > The original lyric is "big fat woman" and I was never comfortable singing > that. So I changed it a tweak that makes it go under the shame radar and > assists people who need to understand that this is a compliment in context. > Since that is what I am trying to communicate, I try to make sure the words > don't get in the way. > > The Wiki article goes into some analysis of why black culture seems OK with > pretty aggressive verbal banter, and they may be right, but I don't see it as > something as deep as pent up aggression. In my experience black culture is > more playfully verbal in general, and that is why their expressions and > lyrics infuse themselves into white culture. Most of the black people I > interact with have an instant playful sense for having fun with words that > makes it really easy for me to interact with, even if they are strangers and > across educational backgrounds. Once they get that the game is on, we can > make each other laugh in a way that can be tougher with more reserved whites, > or even the type of black person who has separated themselves from this > quality. But it is definitely a cultural thing. It is why they can take > Jessie Jackson seriously even when he is talking in the kind of rhythm that > makes most white people not take him seriously. In black culture, the > ability to send a serious message in a more playful entertaining way is a > plus, not a minus for credibility. It exhibits intelligence rather than > clownishness. > > I've been doing research on vaudeville comedy lately which is about as non PC > as you can get. But the process they created it in was a shame-free zone of > anything is fair game and it is OK for immigrants to make fun of each other. > And of course black people got a shitty end of the stick and schtick, but > even within that was lots of interesting perspectives on their culture they > were making themselves. The whole chicken and watermelon connection in the > routines of black entertainers was a playful jab at a social reality, in > mouths of white performers, it became demeaning. > > But as I write more comedy material for my own shows I am struck by how > important it is to create from a place of freedom and then edit for your > audience later. If you try to stay within the lines as you create your > creativity is crippled just as it is in any creative writing. I have to > train my mind to let go of the judgmental perspective as I write. Then later > I can fit it into whatever audience it is suitable for. > > Writing here is odd because you can't write for a perspective. So I use it > more as a warm-up pad knowing that some people will enjoy the effort and some > with use anything I write as a reason to shame me by taking whatever outrage > perspective works for their formulaic attack mode. > > Since only one out of a hundred gags ever make it into my show I am learning > to have thicker skin as I find my way to the gems that work for my audiences. > It is a fascinating process isn't it? I have some great books from > professional comedy writers on their process and I am learning how to work at > it to generate more material for my shows. These guys will write a hundred > jokes a day so that Leno can pick one. But none of it starts with the > thought "how can I make sure no one will ever be offended if that is how they > choose to take this". That perspective kills comedy writing dead. > > I had an interesting discussion with one of my course advisers who is helping > me develop my professional development class for teachers using improv > comedy. I have presented it to three teacher groups so far and use > Ventriloquist figures as models for the exercises. During the demo I let the > audience throw material to my figure that he has to incorporate into the > story as an improv exercise demo. > > Since these are teachers, I have to be very careful to keep humor within > strict PC lines on the fly. It isn't easy. She questioned my Vent figure > who is my cousin from France because she feared that I was using a stereotype > of French people, even though I am French! It is like telling Woody Allan > that he needs to lay off the Jewish material. It was a productive discussion > because I had to consider her POV and eventually we both determined that you > can't predict something like this for an audience since I have taken every > precaution to make it about my own cultural background in creating this > character. What she had to understand was that establishing a character's > comedic POV in the first few seconds requires some shortcuts. He wears a > beret. Not all French people do, but non French audiences see it and > understand something about him without me using dialog to get there. > > Fascinating stuff, thanks for keeping it going Marek. > > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "marekreavis" <reavismarek@> wrote: > > > > Just to chime in: in law school I dated an African-American law student and > > one holiday we traveled to her home in LA to meet the family. Somewhere > > along that trip she tried to get me to play "Dozens" with her > > (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yo_Mama_Joke) as a way of prepping me for the > > visit. For the life of me I couldn't do it; I was too uptight about even > > pretending to be insulting about "yo Mama" that all I could do was kind of > > sputter about trying to search for some put down that was "appropriate", > > while Roxanne could effortlessly let loose with a stream of over the top > > and funny insults that never seemed to stop. > > > > *** > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "curtisdeltablues" > > <curtisdeltablues@> wrote: > > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Emily Reyn <emilymae.reyn@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Are you calling *me* weird? Â Ha, ha, ha... > > > > > > No, definitely not. The statement was weird which is a completely > > > different thing. > > > > > > And I get the whole, be sensitive to people with weight issues angle, but > > > I hope you will take a moment to understand my process. > > > > > > I see Oprah in Fairfield, a comedic wonderland. > > > > > > I shift among perspectives to find one that might serve as a POV for > > > creative writing. > > > > > > Tyler Perry's YO Mamma outrageousness pops up since there is a strong > > > connection with both Oprah and black culture. You do know he is the most > > > popular director for black people, whose work no white people have seen? > > > White liberals know some of Spike Lee's work because he is more "serious" > > > but they are not comfortable with some of the less politically correct > > > aspects of black humor, just like they don't get rap. > > > > > > In white world it would be like choosing to see a Kate Middleton shopping > > > spree through Steve Martin's eyes and doing a lot of sight gags. > > > > > > So a parody is born in my mind, a launching pad. What would Tyler Perry > > > notice to parody in his over-the-top way. > > > > > > Not too hard to figure out, so I am off and running in an instant. > > > > > > Now how does Tyler get away with this in black culture when white women > > > in particular go nuts over this topic and find it offensive? Because big > > > black women see themselves as attractive, this has been proven in > > > numerous studies on self body image between races. > > > > > > And dear little Oprah has been one of the most exploitative of this issue > > > by making it seem as if anyone who doesn't have her teams of resources > > > can shift their body size as she has done in numerous stunts. This is a > > > perspective she has since retracted once she realized that it was > > > unrealistic even for her. But along the way she cashed in big time > > > (Freudian) on woman's insecurities that their size is actually a lack of > > > willpower. > > > > > > So sending her through the Tyler Perry filter was for me a perfect match > > > to write from. Your being offended by it and putting it through your own > > > judgement filter (objectification) is a cultural mismatch from the > > > context I was writing it from. That is how Oprah, who is at least as > > > socially aware as you are, doesn't choose to take it that way when she > > > enjoys this outrageous POV in Tyler's movies. > > > > > > Over the top farce is by nature not sensitive, because it gives a voice > > > to something polite people notice and filter out. > > > > > > Here is a challenge for you. Take a humor style you don't enjoy that you > > > know lots of other people do, and find out how they are seeing it that > > > makes it funny to them. It is a lot more interesting from my POV than > > > choosing to take other people's humor styles as offensive. And I'm not > > > saying that there can't be offensive hurtful humor. But a parody of > > > Oprah through the Tyler Perry lens doesn't have to be seen the way you > > > chose. > > > > > > It could even be a launching pad for your own creative writing. Let's > > > goof on me in some detail. > > > > > > Yo snap! Curtis is running his blond dread-locked world of spliffs, > > > gett'n down with the brothas and sistas and tell'n it how it is from his > > > prep school ghetto wear'n pants half off his white boy flat non ass and > > > rock'n the Vanilla Ice attitude faux Compton wannabe gangsta-fake "Er > > > excuse me sir, would you mind terribly much relieving yourself of your > > > wallet so that I may buy some more 'I look like black people' clothes at > > > the mall? If you don't I will bust a crap...no wait...that doesn't sound > > > right...uh...a cup...no that isn't it, let me check Google on my > > > iphone...oh yeah, bust a cap in your buttocks...no wait... ass that's it, > > > I will surely bust a cap in your ass...oh wait...you are white so that is > > > going to be kind of hard to find to hit...let's see...hey exuuuuuse me, > > > where are you going sir... sir...damn I am so lame. I'd better cough my > > > way through a fat blunt and see one of ma main man Tyler's mad flicks on > > > my mom's Netflix account in her basement. Tomorrow I am gunna be soooo > > > gangsta.... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > > > From: curtisdeltablues <curtisdeltablues@> > > > > To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > Sent: Monday, March 26, 2012 7:17 PM > > > > Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Oprah TM, the morning after... > > > > > > > > > > > > Â > > > > <Yep, I admit it, I've never seen a Tyler Perry movie. > > > > > > > > I just re-read the list looking for the Tyler Perry reference.> > > > > > > > > Imagine that. > > > > > > > > <Are you getting all distracted again?> > > > > > > > > What a weird thing to say. > > > > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Emily Reyn <emilymae.reyn@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Yep, I admit it, I've never seen a Tyler Perry movie. ÃÂ I did catch > > > > > his interview on the Oprah show though :) ÃÂ I do understand the > > > > > "Momma" satire in the black community and I just re-read the list > > > > > looking for the Tyler Perry reference. ÃÂ Huh? ÃÂ > > > > > > > > > > I saw something that might pass for a Dave Chappelle or Chris Rock > > > > > reference, but not Tyler Perry. > > > > > > > > > > Are you getting all distracted again? ÃÂ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > > > > From: curtisdeltablues <curtisdeltablues@> > > > > > To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > Sent: Monday, March 26, 2012 6:20 PM > > > > > Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Oprah TM, the morning after... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ÃÂ > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb <no_reply@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > I for one suspect that if Oprah herself read your > > > > > > list, she'd laugh her sizable ass off. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The funny thing about all the shaming is that no one caught the Tyler > > > > > Perry reference who is Oprah's big friend and who made millions in > > > > > the black community with the Yo Mamma formula which I was following. > > > > > So yes, she finds the Yo Mama is so fat formula hilarious. People > > > > > who would never go to a Tyler Perry movie don't understand. > > > > > > > > > > How big a friend of Tyler's is Oprah? > > > > > > > > > > She is so big a friend that when she got her Jyotish chart done and > > > > > they got to charting the house of Uranus, they drew and arrow to her > > > > > butt. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "curtisdeltablues" > > > > > > <curtisdeltablues@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb <no_reply@> > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > As trolling goes, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You mean that I posted under my name I am assuming. > > > > > > > > > > > > I meant only that your post seemed to have been > > > > > > made with a great deal of humor, but at the same > > > > > > time a clear understanding that your humor might > > > > > > just push a few people's buttons and cause them > > > > > > to react. I call that "trolling." I don't consider > > > > > > it a Bad Thing. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ...this is like shooting fish in a > > > > > > > > barrel, but I look forward to the result anyway. > > > > > > > > It should make the Faux Outrage Hall Of Fame. :-) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The great thing about being offended on behalf of other > > > > > > > people is that you can always stay in a state of outrage. > > > > > > > > > > > > You can also spend your life trying your damndest > > > > > > to get other people to be outraged, too. > > > > > > > > > > > > Since outrage is considered in Buddhism one of > > > > > > the afflictive, poisonous emotions, it seems to > > > > > > me that those who try to *spread* the sense of > > > > > > outrage they feel and get others to feel it too > > > > > > are doing something a tad...uh...low-vibe. > > > > > > > > > > > > > No buzz like the self righteous buzz because it fills you > > > > > > > up and wont make you ...er...uh...well...you know... > > > > > > > > > > > > All full of something? :-) > > > > > > > > > > > > > If there is one thing I have learned from Oprah is that > > > > > > > her weight is not only a choice for her, it is a golden > > > > > > > ratings goose. > > > > > > > > > > > > I for one suspect that if Oprah herself read your > > > > > > list, she'd laugh her sizable ass off. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
