Well, here is one question, Buck: do you feel that your own experiences justify forcing others to act in accordance?
And another: what makes an internal experience "spiritual"? Is it how the person who has that experience chooses to categorize it, or is there some other outward manifestation that outside observers, not having that experience themselves, can look at and agree that there are hallmarks of spirituality?* And that question comes back to my first, because for me the use of force and violence, and the expressions of anger and intolerance are themselves hallmarks of the lack of spirituality. So that's why I was asking about how you would reconcile Hicks' Quietist movement with your own expressions that seem, at least to me, to be diametrically opposed. *(And by outward manifestations, I'm not referring to lower blood pressure and better grades or that type of thing, but an individual's expressions of happiness, satisfaction, altruism, compassion, truthfulness, generosity, holiness, etc.; the types of things that would be indicative of an exemplary character.) *** --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Buck" <dhamiltony2k5@...> wrote: > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "marekreavis" <reavismarek@> wrote: > > > > Buck, Elias Hicks seems like a cool dude; what lessons do you draw from his > > life and teachings? Do you feel that his Quietist doctrine is compatible > > with your (apparently sincere) proposal to round people up for forced > > rounding in the domes and arresting TMO leaders for not administering the > > movement in accord with your personal thoughts? Are those positions > > reconcilable? > > > > *** > > Marek, Yes, we got (spiritual) experience, scriptural doctrine, and in modern > times now the science is pretty evident too to justify a new public and > spiritual policy. I know my own experience with it; however I'm open to and > will listen to persuasion otherwise. > What Elias Hicks did not have in his time was the science that we now have to > defeat these broader doctrinaire religionist nuts of the world otherwise. > However I have always taken instruction from these early Friends (Quaker) > separations over doctrinal religion for how it goes administratively within > the TM movement. The parallels are remarkable for how the Friends > separations were handled in different places. The separations were always > essentially over spiritual practice in experience v dogma of someones > religious or social doctrine viewpoint. The Quakers for their manifest > spiritual experience certainly got in a lot of trouble from and were targets > of other religionists. The separations as they came to butting heads were > of Gnostic or Quietists v rigid doctrinaire incursion in to the Society of > Friends. The Friends meetings more simply were gatherings for group > meditation as with the Meissner Effect (ME) as we would know it. The Friends > organization came in to being for facilitating that group meditation > experience as practice. The doctrinal religionists trying to suppress or > take over the simple organization in reaction. It is still playing out > within TM between progressive spiritual elements of the Hagelin camp on the > one hand and a more doctrinal 'preservationist' element of the Bevan camp on > the other hand. > -Buck > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Buck" wrote: > > > > > > A modest proposal for FFL, be still. > > > Come to meditation. > > > > > > > > > !Jai Elias Hicks! > > > > > > Wiki entry > > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elias_Hicks > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > "Peace, be still." This command and requisition was made > > > > > > > > > > > upon a former, occasion; and I apprehend it will apply > > > > > > > > > > > fully to us. I believe there can be no occasion to demand > > > > > > > > > > > it more than the present one. The comfort and improvement > > > > > > > > > > > of this large assembly depends principally upon it. > > > > > > > > > > > Therefore, it becomes our duty individually, to labour to > > > > > > > > > > > be still. And, in the first place, we are to still our > > > > > > > > > > > bodies. This is a work that seems in a degree to be > > > > > > > > > > > comprehended in our power as human and creatures; hence > > > > > > > > > > > this is the first step. For we must always do what we > > > > > > > > > > > can, rightly and justly; for it is by this right labour, > > > > > > > > > > > and industry, that there is something to receive the > > > > > > > > > > > divine blessing upon. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Peace be Still, > > > > > > > > > > > -Buck in the Dome > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > But this is not enough, my friends,--we must endeavour to > > > > > > > > > > have our minds still. And here is a much greater work, > > > > > > > > > > which it is beyond the power of man to effect of himself. > > > > > > > > > > And this shows us the necessity of individually > > > > > > > > > > endeavouring to get our bodies still, that so we may retire > > > > > > > > > > to that fountain of strength, which only can enable us to > > > > > > > > > > experience our minds to be brought into stillness--into > > > > > > > > > > silent prostration before the King of heaven, the Unified > > > > > > > > > > Field. > > > > > > > > > > Peace, > > > > > > > > > > -Buck in the Dome > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And we are not to stop here neither, my friends. There is > > > > > > > > > that "little member voice, that no man," the apostle says, > > > > > > > > > "has tamed;" although men may have tamed all the brute > > > > > > > > > creation--and that is the tongue. It is a little voice; but, > > > > > > > > > as he says, "it is an unruly evil, full of deadly poison." It > > > > > > > > > is like a fire, "and it is set on fire of hell." Now there is > > > > > > > > > nothing that can enable us to keep this quiet and silent, but > > > > > > > > > as we bow in perfect submission to the divine will of Nature, > > > > > > > > > to time manifestation of the grace of that Unified Field in > > > > > > > > > our own souls; and without this, we cannot use it in a proper > > > > > > > > > manner. > > > > > > > > > Peace > > > > > > > > > be still, > > > > > > > > > -Buck > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > "Therewith bless we the Unified Field; and therewith curse we > > > > > > > > men, which are made after the similitude of God." And we know, > > > > > > > > that it does happen among the children of men, that they usurp, > > > > > > > > as it were, the throne of God, and impeach their fellow > > > > > > > > Creatures and give sentence upon them; and, as far as the > > > > > > > > tongue can do it, send them down to the bottomless pit of > > > > > > > > perdition. "My brethren, these things ought not so to be." And > > > > > > > > it is an evidence to us what state we must come to experience, > > > > > > > > before we can effect the great purpose for which we are > > > > > > > > assembled; which is no less, I apprehend, as to time general > > > > > > > > motive, than to present ourselves before time Almighty Creator > > > > > > > > of the universe, the Unified Field, the giver of every good and > > > > > > > > perfect gift, and to wait on it, and worship it in spirit and > > > > > > > > in truth. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -Buck in the Dome > > > > > > > > But none can worship it, till all these unruly passions, all these > > > > disturbances and troubles, that naturally attend men and women in their > > > > natural state, are all brought down into entire subjection to the > > > > divine will, and until there is a complete sense of this greatness, and > > > > of our nothingness. Here it is, that we are brought into a condition to > > > > learn of it. For what will it avail any of us, to come and sit down > > > > thus together, to be led, and guided, and instructed in the way of > > > > salvation, if we do not gather into a state, whereby and wherein we > > > > calm be instructed--into a situation in which we can hear what the > > > > Spirit saith unto the churches? And it is my earnest desire, that we > > > > may individually labour after this stillness; for this is the travail > > > > that ought always to attend our minds when thus assembled together. > > > > This leads to an experience and evidence in ourselves, of the mighty > > > > power of the Unified Field, and of our own complete insufficiency to do > > > > any good thing. For we must come to this evidence before we can serve > > > > it aright; and before we can walk in the way which he has cast up for > > > > the ransomed and redeemed to walk in--a blessed way. We must come into > > > > this condition, in order to learn our duty, not only to God the Unified > > > > Field our creator, but to man our fellow creature. This will open to us > > > > all that we are to do, and instruct us in the way in which we can > > > > answer the great end of our creation, and we shall always be ready to > > > > glorify the Unified Field and enjoy it. > > > > Be still, > > > > -Buck > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hence, we see, as reasonable creatures, that every act of our lives > > > > > > must be to this effect; and every word that we speak ought to have > > > > > > this tendency: we ought to have our words savory, so as to minister > > > > > > grace to the hearers, and timid even in our language and converse > > > > > > with one another. That it may all tend to the glory and honour of > > > > > > time great and adorable I AM, from whom we receive all our power > > > > > > and ability to do any thing, and every blessing which we can have > > > > > > or receive. How awful the consideration, that not only in every > > > > > > word, but in every act, whether we meet together as at present, or > > > > > > whether in eating, drinking, or putting on apparel, it is all to be > > > > > > done to the glory of God. Mind it, my friends, and my dear young > > > > > > friends! > > > > > >-Buck, in the Dome > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Robert" <babajii_99@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > For me to pray to the 'Unified Field' is so 'Dry Sounding and > > > > > > > Cold'... > > > > > > > I don't know where that started... > > > > > > > Where is the 'Love' in that? > > > > > > > The 'Compassion'? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I would prefer to think of it as the 'Holy Spirit'... > > > > > > > The Atman, The 'Soul'... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Words do have power, and to think of God as the unified field, is > > > > > > > cold and detatched/ from love, and individual purpose and > > > > > > > soulfulness... > > > > > > > Just my opinion... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Robert > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yeah I know, but Baba, Buck ain't done with the sermon yet. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
