On Aug 3, 2012, at 12:26 AM, awoelflebater wrote:
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj <vajradhatu@...> wrote:
>
>
> On Aug 2, 2012, at 3:11 PM, "feste37" <feste37@...> wrote:
>
> > So Vaj moved from the unpleasant pedophile analogy to a quite
different accusation of criminality, all within a few hours! My,
oh, my, some people's hatred runs so deep it knows no bounds of
decorum or decency.
> >
> > I have never had the impression that Robin is "targeting"
anyone. He is working out some ideas and exchanging them with
people who are willing to debate or simply chat with him. That's
really the purpose of this forum, is it not?
> >
>
>
> If we're honest with ourselves, and honest with the people around
us, we hopefully tack close to what's actually happening, even in
the most relative terms, in our life.
>
> So the question then becomes, how would you react to someone who
caused friends to be expelled from college
Only MIU could expel people.
I think the key word you're missing is "caused". RWC did not expel
these students, he was the cause of their expulsion.
> some just before graduation, all that I talked to went on an
inviolable faith that the person they put trust in was legit and
worth risking their young careers, their young lives.
The word "young" makes my eyes water. And oh, what fun they had.
I'll bet a degree from MIU was worth the risk.
Again, you seem to miss the point - yet another disconnect - they did
not get degrees from MIU, they were expelled.
>How do you react when you hear someone extolling the virtues of
maintaining the meditative purity of domes, while you know and have
talked to the students that were tricked
How tricked? Everyone is a free agent. These were intelligent,
sensitive, strong men. They were adventurers. Nothing in this life
is without "risk".
The key trick was "look at me, I'm an enlightened man" and based on
that faulty information (from my POV) they preceded. I guess really
the issue here is that they were part of an organisation that placed
great emphasis on alleged "higher" states of consciousness and here
was RWC presenting himself as the fulfillment of that ideal, in the
flesh. In such a case, the onus falls on the integrity, honesty and
maturity of the guru, as he's taking responsibility for his students.
into violating that sacred space (for those involved in the dome
programs); I've heard their hopes and their fears, as I spoke to
them while they were still doing it, and afterwards.
So what are they doing now? How are they? Did they survive? Are
they still curled up in the fetal position, inconsolable?
I cannot say, but I would doubt that.
So you're going with an enablers tack: they survived and they're OK,
so everything's OK, Robin's OK, I'm OK?
How do you handle this same person recommending abortion for some
couples "evolution"?
Not the same as undertaking the procedure. As I said, everyone is a
free agent. Choice, Vaj, choice. No guns to anyone's head.
But you ignore the key component here: enlightened advice = the
advice to have, if you're on a liberation path. Of course the problem
is, 'what happens when da guru ain't enlightened?' ;-)
Now while it didn't go as badly as say Rev. Jones or Rajneeshpuram,
I'd hope you can see that a similar seed exists in these very
different circumstances. So my hope would be that we become wiser -
and hopefully more compassionate in action - from seeing these
spiritual pathologies acted out. Then we need not be enablers or
victims any longer, just wiser to the ways of the world.
>
> And then there is the demonic confrontations...
That " ..." implies so much here. Left to the reader's imagination.
Only if they don't ask or make inquiry.
Hopefully we would ask ourselves what benefit there was from it? Was
it real? Did it represent a pathology of some sort in the guru or
some form of direct seeing (of ultimate reality)?
If it wasn't real, what does that mean if we encounter similar
situations later in life? Are we wiser in response to what we
learned, or do we ignore what we've seen and not act in ways that are
helpful?
Each person will respond very differently. For example one might
expect someone who was found to be demonic would react strongly,
someone who never was, less so.
>
> Then as time passes, you forget most of this, only to run into
that same person again, weaving the same old patterns (to your
perception) once again. What do you do then Feste?
We know what you do Vaj.
I doubt that, because most of the meaty discussion of RWC and WTS
have not taken place on FFL. They've taken place offlist between old
movement insiders, therapists and people who were there.
>
> If you don't get that you're his target audience Feste, then
maybe it's because the crosshairs are placed so finely on you,
you've missed their very presence.
OK, if I had said that I would immediately be branded a DQ, or as
Tea said, a melodramatic Queen.
:-)
>
> > I like Robin. I think he is a good guy.
>
>
> I would think you two (and many here) share some similar or even
same sentimental moments. R's sentimentality should appeal to many
TM folk.
I think you are the one who is sentimental, reminiscing on so many
old times. In fact, I would go so far as to say obsessing.
And, of course, you're welcome to your opinion.
