--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Buck" <dhamiltony2k5@...> wrote: > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb <no_reply@> wrote: > > > > Following up on this, because I suspect that one or > > more of the cultists will try to pretend that they > > aren't cultists :-), the distinction I'm trying to > > make in my definition of what constitutes a cultist > > is about the "trigger" that sets them off. > > > > It's NOT criticism of them personally. That's just > > how they interpret criticism of the organization > > or group they pathologically over-identify with. > > > > If you perceive criticism of an *idea* -- a belief > > or set of beliefs -- that you identify with as if > > it were an "attack" on you personally, then what > > you are demonstrating IMO is an over-attachment to > > that set of beliefs or idea, and a *lack* of self- > > knowledge -- where "you" start and where "you" end. > > Similarly, if you over-react and plunge into a new > > round of "shoot the messenger" because someone > > criticizes the consistent and repetitive behavior > > of the group -- *especially* when that group behavior > > mirrors your own behavior -- then you're a cultist. > > > > Normal people can discuss ideas, and even ideas they > > hold strongly, without having to resort to cultist, > > knee-jerk behavior when doing so. Normal people can > > recognize that human beings can hold different opinions > > about ideas and still be human beings. Cultists can't. > > They feel compelled to describe those who believe > > differently than they do as having some failing or > > as if their difference of belief is somehow malevolent, > > an "attack" on them *and* the things they believe in. > > > > A criticism of TM, its philosophy, and the behavior > > of its leaders is NOT an attack on religion -- it's > > a criticism of ideas. When someone who believes in > > those ideas reacts as if they'd been struck in the > > face, then I think most people would recognize that > > they have grown too attached to those ideas, and have > > lost their sense of boundaries -- where "they" leave > > off and their beliefs start up. The parallel in the > > larger world is the concerted attempt by some people > > to characterize any criticism of the State of Israel > > and its politics and policies as anti-semitism. > > > > There is simply NO QUESTION that a lot of TMers are > > cultists in this regard. When MJ rails about the TMO, > > they react as if he's railing against them personally, > > and they *over-react* as strongly as if they were > > black and he'd called them a nigger. That's INSANE > > in my view. > > > > Ideas are just ideas. Beliefs are just beliefs. Your > > ideas and your beliefs are not you. Get over it. > > > > > > Om Dear Turq, that's ridiculous iam a revolutionary millenarian and by your > writings are clearly are not. That is defining and we are different people > that way. One of us could be right and the other even wrong. It could even > be worth fighting over. That is not to say I would not appreciate having a > cup of coffee with you sometime in between meditation or even before > meditation if you get up early enough. Speaking of which, I got to go to the > Dome right now. Have a nice day, you stinking counter-revolutionary, > -Buck
Right out of the 19th century Buck. Maybe right out of the first or second century too. Millenarian ideas have had an interesting history, namely that they have repeatedly failed to come to pass. Our thoughts about the world and what is going to happen are hypotheses at best and mad imaginings at worst. As a species we have an incredibly bad memory for having been repeatedly wrong. Our minds are mythology machines, weaving tales of greatness and woe, about what we think we are in these fragile bodies, about what others are, and it is dreamland city. All turq is saying is that process is identification, and that cult-like behaviour ought end if that identification with 'what we think is true' comes to an end. Meditation is supposed to be a means to accomplish this, although it does not seem to work that well for the purpose.
