Um, no, Barry, nice try, but no cigar. I simply don't feel that your "contest" formulation is appropriate with regard to spiritual experiences. To turn them into a narcissistic ego-battle degrades the whole notion of spirituality. That this is what you advocate is odd indeed considering how you've railed against perceived egotism as incompatible with genuine spirituality.
"Would you even *know* about the possibility of sidhis or enlightenment if people who had witnessed or experienced these phenomena hadn't 'manned up' and admitted having seen/experienced them?" Were these people bent on winning a spiritual-experiences contest? Somehow I don't think so. "I mean, we have someone who has a documented history of almost *never* being brave enough to write or talk about details of her own life..." This, as you know, is entirely false. I've often written about the details of my life. "...the woman whose reason for never talking about the experiences she considers 'spiritual...'" As I've already pointed out, I have talked about experiences I've had that I consider spiritual. That was in the Good Old Days before Barry insisted on making a contest out of it. (And remember, folks, Barry claims that he never reads my posts. How, then, can he know what I write about and what I don't?) As I noted before, no attempt at distraction or misdirection by Barry can obscure the facts: According to him, writing about spiritual experiences on this forum should be a contest in which there are winners and losers. I don't think Barry intended originally for it to become evident that this was what underlay his exhortation for folks to write about their experiences. He did intend to make it a contest if he could get people to do this writing, but he didn't want them to know this beforehand. It slipped out accidentally bit by bit in his desperate attempts to demonize me, and now there's nothing he can do about it--it's on the record. Since I started this topic, why don't I deal with the diversion created by someone who doesn't think much of the idea? In her latest post, she as much as admitted that the reason she doesn't write about any of her spiritual experiences (*supposed* spiritual experiences...I think pretty much everyone here doubts that they even exist) is that she's AFRAID to. She's AFRAID that doing so will subject her (and the others she is trying to infect with her own fear) will render them "subject to critiques by the group." She feels that others -- in her mind as fearful as herself -- will not be "encouraged by this approach to post their spiritual experiences." Stepping outside the tiny, tiny box of fear she's walled herself into, let's discuss the larger point. That is, that pretty much *everything* we know about "spirituality" and "the spiritual path" was told to us by people who either did *NOT* feel these fears, or who just "manned up" (or "womyn-up, if you're a pseudo-feminist) and went all Nike on the task's ass, and Just Did It. Think about it. Would you even *know* about the possibility of sidhis or enlightenment if people who had witnessed or experienced these phenomena hadn't "manned up" and admitted having seen/experienced them? Think of the "critiques" THEY encountered. Did that dismay them? No, it did not. *Of course* people are going to react critically to things that are outliers to their everyday experience. *Of course* some of them are going to 'diss the people saying these things. THIS IS THE WAY IT'S ALWAYS BEEN. THIS IS THE WAY IT WILL ALWAYS BE. GET OVER IT. If you've had experiences that you consider spiritual, *what does it MATTER* what anyone else thinks of them? If your *intent* is to inspire others, and to present to them even the *possibility* of such things happening, *what does it MATTER* how they react? If they "get" what you're saying, or writing about, cool. If they don't, cool. If the experiences you feel are "spiritual" really *were* -- for you -- *what does it MATTER* what ANYONE thinks of them? Seems to me that this a pretty wussy argument being proposed to FFLers by Ms. I'm Terrified To Every Write About Something I Considered Spiritual. I mean, we have someone who has a documented history of almost *never* being brave enough to write or talk about details of her own life trying to convince others on this forum that this is the way that *they* should conduct their lives, too. After all, they wouldn't want to expose themselves to "critiques," would they? Duh. Does she strike you as *happy*? If no one ever had -- if *everyone* in history had thought the fearful way she does -- NONE of you on this forum would ever have even *heard* of the things that you now regard as "spiritual." The *silence* coming from the wussies who were terrified of "critiques" would have been the only thing you ever heard. Or didn't hear. Your call, FFLers. If you wish to align yourself with the woman whose reason for never talking about the experiences she considers "spiritual" is basically FEAR OF CRITIQUES, well, I wish you well. May you live with her in an ongoing state of fear. For the others, those who "have a pair" (even if the pair is ovaries), I think most people would think more of you if you just showed them from time to time, instead of just hiding them in your panties out of fear. And ya never know...your exercise in getting past your own fears and describing cool things that most people have not experienced -- or have not *yet* experienced -- might "spread them around," and inspire others to experience them, too.
