well, it is an interesting point you make Ann. I do think that the atheists, in general like keeping the discussion on a more abstract, highly philosophical track.
I mean, if I understand it correctly, an atheist would have to believe that we are born as a blank slate. And that when we die, it is "fade to black" That has so many implications that fly in the face of everyday experience, me thinks. Twins separated at birth, growing up in different environments. How could they in any way develop similarities as they are know to do. Or all the strange accounts of children recalling past lives and verifiable events. I mean, these things happen all the time, and I don't think the atheist has any sensible explanation for them, except, "there is so much we don't know about brain functioning or genetics" Anyway, that's my rant. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, <awoelflebater@...> wrote: ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, <steve.sundur@...> wrote: Well, I think once you open the door to the possibility that consciousness may continue after physical death you open the door to the possibility that there is an agency at work behind the scenes organizing this activity. And then there's there are the many anomalies such as twins separated at birth, who develop similar skills, or the hundreds of examples of people recalling things that they have no business recalling. And when you bring up these examples to atheists, you sometimes hear them play a very Godlike card such as, "There's so much we don't know about genetics", or "There's so much we don't know about the brain". Sounds very much like, "God works in mysteries ways". For the record, I am pretty clueless about God, but I do believe in a higher power at work here. I do too. And I find it so strange when people say I want "proof" because it is everywhere. There is nothing but proof from the oatmeal you cook for breakfast to the airplane that flies. It is just so strange that everyone doesn't see that. It is like being in a garden and the person next to you asks where the flowers are. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, <turquoiseb@...> wrote: Good questions, especially in an argument started by and perpetuated by someone who doesn't even have the balls to say what she believes. She's arguing *literally* just for the sake of arguing. Go figure. As for life after death, you didn't ask me but I don't see that this has anything to do with God or the belief or non-belief in one. I don't believe in a God, but I suspect (based on subjective experience of fairly dynamic waking state "past-life flashbacks) that consciousness may continue after physical death. But that has nothing whatsoever IMO to do with either the existence of a God or the existence of any kind of "morality" or "fairness" as you imply with your notions about karma. I think that "fairness" is a human-invented concept that does not exist in nature, and never has. It's a myth that people think up so that they won't be so frightened of the idea of chaos and indeterminancy. That's why they invent the myth of God too IMO, but one doesn't necessarily have anything to do with the other. Anyway, as for the Great Mystery that we call death, I pass along an interesting song that will probably not mean anything to anyone here who isn't a fan of the Canadian TV show "Lost Girl." This song (in its entirety) was used to close the last show of the season, in which one of everyone's favorite characters gets to explore the Great Mystery, and IMO it was brilliantly chosen, because all over Canada and North America fans were weeping to see her go. But as to WHERE she's going, that's still a Great Mystery, as much in fiction as in real life. No problemo...we'll all find out soon enough ourselves. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f2fCcggNkTs http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f2fCcggNkTs ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, <steve.sundur@...> wrote: Does it advance the discussion in anyway to ask what "you" believe, say in regards to what happens when you die, or when "anyone" dies? Is it the atheist position that it's "lights out". Options - "expire worthless" Now, I know one might say, "I have no evidence that, that's not the case", but I'd like to know what "you" believe. My analysis compels me to believe that there is an element of karma, and that karma carries over from one existence to the next, and the next. To use a oft cited example, the person who is a mass murderer, just merges back into nothingness upon death? No consequences? So people get away with murder? Or no kudos for a generous life? No second chance for a life cut down after one or two years? Step away from the theory for a moment and tell us, if you care to, what you believe in this regard.
