As I said previously, I've read autobiographies, and biographies of people who were said to be enlightened. A few that come to mind are Yogananda, Muktananda, Ramakrishna, Vivekenanda, with a very notable mention for Elizibeth Haich. I've read books by them, or about them, and I came way feeling that they were enlightened. Whatever enlightenment means. But whatever it is, I felt they had it.
I had the same feeling when I read the transcripts of the interviews with Fred Lenz. What you speculate below makes as much sense as anything else. That of course is your take away. Now whether the enlightenment of a teacher gives way sex with students, or other activities not normally associated with being enlightened, I don't have an answer for it, and it doesn't negate the fact that they may be enlightened, at least for me. For me, I feel I've made the most progress spiritually when I don't attempt to judge people, places, or things. I try to look at things in a cool manner, and by doing so, I feel I sometimes gain particular insights. I think that may be something I picked up from the Carlos Castenades books. I'm a little tired so I can't remember accurately. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, <emilymaenot@...> wrote : Re: I happen to be in the camp that thinks Fred had achieved a remarkable level of consciousnesses. I have no idea what that means, honestly...."a remarkable level of consciousness." My sense is that he had skills and abilities that not everyone has...perhaps he was born with them, perhaps he discovered them along the way. Kind of like those people that have skills to communicate with animals, for example, they are just wired that way, or particularly sensitive in that certain way and able to recognize it. But, in Fred Lenz's case, he fell prey to his own narcissism and illusions and drug addictions, etc. and....it didn't go well for him or for those who invested themselves in or with him as their "teacher" and "leader." ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, <steve.sundur@...> wrote : Sure, I understand. I happen to be in the camp that thinks Fred had achieved a remarkable level of consciousnesses. For me it is based on the transcripts of two interviews he gave. Maybe going back, I might feel differently. But I've read my share of books on, or about, supposed enlightened people. Sometimes that quality really shines through. That was the feeling I was left with after reading the interviews. His practice of different siddhis? No idea But as you say, they were observed by many people. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, <emilymaenot@...> wrote : Nope, I can't. But, I believe that Mark L. and others had the early experiences they did with Fred. I am not weighing in on the how or why of it all. Notice Steve, that I've left myself an enormous amount of wiggle room here using the phrase "altered perception." Many things can create an experience of altered perception - hypnosis, drugs, meditation, etc. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, <steve.sundur@...> wrote : Emily, can you elaborate on how this typically works? ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, <emilymaenot@...> wrote : Why Richard, why....do you continue to obsess on Fred Lenz? Why oh why oh why? Rama had the ability to alter one's perception...well before the drugs took over. He's not the only one who had/has this ability. Get over it. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, <punditster@...> wrote : On 3/25/2014 8:44 AM, TurquoiseBee wrote: I have no interest in "engaging" with you, Jim, for any reason whatsoever. You're a mental midget with psychological problems so severe that you feel the need to pretend that you're enlightened. What could there possibly be to talk about? The only person here "dodging and weaving" and "hiding" is you. I think you're doing so because you don't want to reveal that your marriage is as rocky as your hold on sanity. > Speaking of "dodging and weaving", it looks to me like Barry doesn't want to talk about the Rama levitation event. Go figure.
