turq, for "most healthy way" I'd go with the parameters that doctors use such as specific blood pressure, heart rate, etc. For the brain, I'd use parameters that neuroscientists use such as certain brain wave frequency, etc. I don't think these parameters are completely developed, but they're a start.
On Friday, May 2, 2014 11:48 AM, TurquoiseBee <turquoi...@yahoo.com> wrote: From: Share Long <sharelon...@yahoo.com> To: "FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com" <FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Friday, May 2, 2014 6:44 PM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Re-Facilitating a Future and the New TM Movement: turq, whoops, here we go: fully developed human is a person whose brain and body are functioning in a most healthy way where most healthy means optimally conducive to life. Don't rely on buzzwords, Share. Define those terms. Start with "most healthy way" and continue on to "optimally conducive to life." We'll wait. And continue waiting. :-) On Friday, May 2, 2014 10:34 AM, TurquoiseBee <turquoi...@yahoo.com> wrote: From: Share Long <sharelon...@yahoo.com> To: "FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com" <FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Friday, May 2, 2014 5:27 PM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Re-Facilitating a Future and the New TM Movement: turq, as I've alluded to before with all my talk of MRI machines, I'd like to see science define "full development" wrt human consciousness. Til then I tend to go by my gut feeling. Which I know can be wrong. But that's part of being human. And life will set me straight one way or the other. There, that wasn't such a long wait, was it? You *do* realize that you provided no definition, right? We're still waiting for one. As, it would seem, are you. I'm past that. I don't believe that there is a "top" or "highest level" of human development. I don't even really believe that there are "levels." On Friday, May 2, 2014 10:20 AM, TurquoiseBee <turquoi...@yahoo.com> wrote: From: Share Long <sharelon...@yahoo.com> To: "FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com" <FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Friday, May 2, 2014 4:59 PM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Re-Facilitating a Future and the New TM Movement: Yes, turq, but some hierarchies are useful. NOT if they don't exist, such as the two examples you used earlier. For example, if you needed brain surgery, would you want Maya to do it?! No, you'd want someone who was *more developed* as a brain surgeon. Ok, I admit that's another assumption of mine! Define "more developed" or "fully developed" for me in terms of human consciousness. I'll wait. On Friday, May 2, 2014 9:49 AM, TurquoiseBee <turquoi...@yahoo.com> wrote: Bullshit. "fuller stages of development" is just another hierarchy. "Brains functioning in an optimally healthy way" is another hierarchy. Both are mere assumptions. ________________________________ From: Share Long <sharelon...@yahoo.com> To: "FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com" <FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Friday, May 2, 2014 4:30 PM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Re-Facilitating a Future and the New TM Movement: turq, I agree with you about the use of hierarchy. But what about using the concept of fuller stages of development wrt humans? This might even be measurable scientifically. What others have called Self just might be a label for the situation in which most of the brain functioning in an optimally healthy way. On Friday, May 2, 2014 9:23 AM, TurquoiseBee <turquoi...@yahoo.com> wrote: From: "curtisdeltabl...@yahoo.com" <curtisdeltabl...@yahoo.com> To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, May 2, 2014 3:30 AM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Re-Facilitating a Future and the New TM Movement: R: According to Harris, by paying close attention to moment-to-moment conscious experience, it is possible to make our sense of "self" vanish and thereby uncover a new state of personal well-being. 'The End of Faith: Religion, Terror, and the Future of Reason' by SamHarris W.W. Norton & Company, 2004 p. 214 C: Excellent quote find Richard! What I believe distinguishes him from the Maharishi perspective is that he does not identify the silent aspect of the mind with a higher Self. This also corresponds with my own experience of using TM without the belief system. I cannot say that what I used to consider my Self, is the most important aspect of my identity. That move is an intellectual one supported by the belief system and triggered by the mahavakyas in Maharishi's system. Without that presumption it appears as just another aspect of a multifaceted identity cluster which may or may not be all illusion. I am fascinated by exploring this without the usual assumptions from the Vedic perspective. Excellent point, Curtis. One of the things I reject about almost all forms of spirituality I've encountered is that they're stuck in hierarchical thinking. One's sense of "self" is lower than one's sense of "Self." They build their whole philosophies around their assumption that the universe is hierarchical in nature. I honestly don't believe it is. I think it's relational. (For me to explain this, I'd have to trot out my rap about hierarchical vs. relational databases, and I doubt anyone wants to read through that again.) I'm a "hard social scientist" when it comes to which comes first -- the experience one is trying to interpret or find meaning in, or the belief system one uses to interpret it. IMO the belief system always comes first. It colors anything you experience. So if he's got suggestions for how one can avoid that trap, I'd love to hear them. Love your phrase "just another aspect of a multifaceted identity cluster which may or may not be all illusion." That's it. What TMers and New Agers call "Self" is Just Another Experience. Not higher, not lower, and possibly not even happening at all. :-) Just sitting and noticing. Another good phrase. Thanks for digging that up. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, <punditster@...> wrote : On 5/1/2014 3:26 PM, curtisdeltablues@... wrote: > Any tips or insights, especially since you have a TM history and might >> know the issues TMers might have would be welcome. >> >According to Harris, by paying close attention to moment-to-moment conscious experience, it is possible to make our sense of "self" vanish and thereby uncover a new state of personal well-being. 'The End of Faith: Religion, Terror, and the Future of Reason' by SamHarris W.W. Norton & Company, 2004 p. 214 --- This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active. http://www.avast.com