The two perspectives converge if you go far enough back in time and leave out quantum mechanics.
In fact, the "billiard ball playing deity" is a very common perspective for the Natural Philosophers where God created the universe, set up initial conditions, and stepped aside. "Free Will" is just a philosophical out that people created to allow for Faith and Sin. L ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, <authfriend@...> wrote : Yes, I do know, but actually, I was responding to Bhairitu, not Barry. Really just a point of possible general interest for anyone following these discussions. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, <awoelflebater@...> wrote : ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, <authfriend@...> wrote : FWIW, determinism and predestination are two different things. Predestination is the doctrine that everything that happens has been destined to happen from the beginning. Determinism is the doctrine that every action is determined by the previous action. Judy, you know that defining and making distinctions between things like this is not Bawee's cuppa. He simply can't be bothered with detail, new understanding or subtlety. This is waaayy over his dummkopf. And he always defaults to the most negative spin possible with regard to people. His is a world where it is necessary, indeed his very survival depends upon, casting the worst possible light on someone's motivation or abilities. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, <noozguru@...> wrote : No. It's that you can't prove either free will or pre-destiny. So why bother? Enjoy your pattern. :-D On 05/12/2014 01:48 PM, TurquoiseBee turquoiseb@... mailto:turquoiseb@... [FairfieldLife] wrote: Have you ever considered the possibility that those who believe in a determinist universe are just too dull to imagine the world they see around them any other way? :-)