From: "lengli...@cox.net [FairfieldLife]" <FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com>
Heh. The best children's growing up story I have seen on TV is Hikaru no Go, based on a comic. In Japan, approximately 30% of all books sold are in comic form, so the genre tends to attract a much higher level of wrier than in teh West. It's considered a first class medium for expression there, and some of the most innovative writers and artists experiment in many ways with telling stories using it. All but the product-placement comics and cartoons tend to show layers of meaning and humor that are beyond all but the most sophisticated of English novels, in my experience. I will allow you to believe this, based on -- as you say -- your experience. The average novel contains 64,000 words; the average comic book about 3,000. I contend that the art form known as comic books is a remedial storytelling form designed for people with ADHD or who are not comfortable with or capable of reading anything longer. In the West, there's only a handful of world-class comic book writers, but they're. well, world class. The two that come to mind immediately are Neil Gammon, whose reinterpretation of a minor DC character (_The Sandman_) earned him a World Fantasy Award for best fantasy short story, and launched his mainstream career (I was there when Harlan Ellison, who was in charge of eh awards committee, caught Gaimon's eye and exclaimed "really good work, man," strongly hinting that Gaimmon had a lock on the award). Meanwhile, neither Neil Gaiman nor Harlan Ellison would ever be considered "world class writers" by most people who read outside the SciFi/Fantasy genre. They're both "big frog in a small pond" type writers -- excellent at what they do within a very, very, very limited field, but (so far) incapable of expanding beyond that field. I shall allow you to rant below, but won't bother to read it. I stand by my original assertion (or what I meant to imply by what I originally said) -- that IMO those who feel the need to characterize comic books as high art are for the most part delayed adolescents clinging to impressions made on them by these comics when they were young. They either haven't grown up or haven't moved on to discover more interesting and challenging art forms after having grown up. If you like them, cool. But don't try to convince those of us who actually have the attention span to read an actual novel that comic books are anything other than...uh...comic books. Your attention span may define what you are comfortably able to read and enjoy, but many of the rest of us don't have that limitation. Please try to bear in mind what *most people in the world* think when they see grown men and women at comic book conventions. That is, they look at these people and see a bunch of people obsessing over something that most people left behind when they turned 15. The more these people rant about how important the genre is, the more they are perceived as obsessive delayed adolescents. And in my opinion, rightly. They're COMIC BOOKS, Lawson. People used to obsess over Beanie Babies and collect them as if they were art, too...but that didn't make them art. Possibly the only thing more embarrassing than trying to convince others that TM is "Important, damnit!" is trying to do the same thing with comic books. :-) The other world-class comic that comes to mind immediately is _Maus_, which won a Pulitzer Prize. Have you ever won a Pulitzer, Unc? Even more mainstream comics can be very sophisticated. The various interpretations of Batman, such as The Dark Knight Returns have been the inspiration for the popular movie franchise. Superman, Spiderman, etc., all are stories geared towards kids originally, but they have endured so long that their stories have been rebooted many times to appeal to new generations. The most recent incarnations of most superhero stories are written by people who are catering not only to kids, but to collectors who are easily 10-30 years older, and often quite well educated. The issues of alcoholism were explored in detail in the famous Ironman story arc, Demon in a Bottle, which was quite true to life, from my perspective as an Adult Child of an Alcoholic. Even early Marvel and DC stories enjoyed exploring unusual themes. The concept of a multiverse was explored in Marvel comics back in the 60's and 70's, and the philosophical, spiritual and religious implications of such concepts were explored in detail in the context of the adventures of the various superheroes. I still remember, 40+ years later, the story of Dr Strange encountering the magician who was traveling back in time, stealing mystical energy from every possible source, with the intent to go back to the First Instant and "do things right" this time. By the time he arrived at the Beginning of Time, he was essentially God, knowing everything at all times in all spaces, and he roared "Finally!"... and then laughed and said, "Oh of course, how silly of Me.... Let there be light." and all was as it always was. I used to date an older woman whose job was to draw the illustrations for the old sewing pattern packets you find at fabric stores. She always spoke admiringly of the expertise of the "joke book artists" who could render an entire fight scene from any angle, in perfect perspective, without using a model of any kind. Your ignorance about the genre is astounding, given your pride in being a writer. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, <turquoiseb@...> wrote : From: "LEnglish5@... [FairfieldLife]" <FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com> Hey, the original THor character was banished to Earth in human form and condemned to a mortal life as a crippled doctor until he proved that he was worthy, so being deemed unworthy is nothing new. In a more recent (still 20+ years ago I think) storyline, Thor's hammer was wield for a while by an alien named Betaray Bill, who was so worthy of the hammer that even after Thor recovered it, Oden gave Bill his own hammer of comparable power, so that he could fight the good fight amongst the Alien Stars. I believe that there was a time when Lady Sith was wielding Thor's hammer, at least for a little while. The reporter simply doesn't know the Marvel Universe all that well. It could also be that the reporter actually has a life. :-) I thought the reporter had a point -- few things would get these delayed adolescent fanboys' knickers in a twist more than the thought of the Mighty Thor's penis substitute being wielded by a...spit...woman. :-) Seriously -- and *including* Joss Whedon in this rant -- I've never understood grown people who fixate on comic book characters. They're COMIC BOOKS, people. The writing sucks, the characterizations are as two-dimensional as the paper they're printed on, and the types of things they think about and fight over are at best the kinds of fantasies obsessed on by adolescent boys. I look upon Joss Whedon's obsession with Marvel characters as an embarrassing failing in an otherwise worthy career. I overlook it because he occasionally writes plots and characters that are more adult-oriented and interesting. I hope he gets over this Marvel stuff soon and gets back to writing more interesting material. :-) :-) :-) ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, <turquoiseb@...> wrote : I seem to remember (although the shitty Neo search function can't find it) that Edg once waxed eloquent about how Marvel's Thor character was the only superhero worth admiring. Well, bad news, Edg. Thor's been a Bad Boy, so he's been brushed aside -- fired. And worse, his mighty hammer will be wielded by a WOMAN. There is fear and trembling among the diehard male chauvinists in Asgard tonight. :-) Marvel’s Thor is Now a Woman Marvel’s Thor is Now a Woman In news that will probably baffle comic book fans and normal people alike, it was revealed that Thor (yes, the Avenger) is no longer worthy of his title and will be... View on screencrush.com Preview by Yahoo I look upon Joss Whedon's obsession with Marvel characters as an embarrassing failing in an otherwise worthy career. I overlook it because he occasionally writes plots and characters that are more adult-oriented. I hope he'll get over this Marvel stuff soon and get back to writing more interesting stuff. :-) :-) :-) ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, <turquoiseb@...> wrote : I seem to remember (although the shitty Neo search function can't find it) that Edg once waxed eloquent about how Marvel's Thor character was the only superhero worth admiring. Well, bad news, Edg. Thor's been a Bad Boy, so he's been brushed aside -- fired. And worse, his mighty hammer will be wielded by a WOMAN. There is fear and trembling among the diehard male chauvinists in Asgard tonight. :-) Marvel’s Thor is Now a Woman Marvel’s Thor is Now a Woman In news that will probably baffle comic book fans and normal people alike, it was revealed that Thor (yes, the Avenger) is no longer worthy of his title and will be... View on screencrush.com Preview by Yahoo
