Meditation is not a science and Marshy only glommed onto it when he saw it could get him more followers. The monkey on your back is lying to you Buck - stop listening to him.
________________________________ From: "dhamiltony...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife]" <FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com> To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, August 11, 2014 10:12 PM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Science and the Meissner Effect of Consciousness as Field The TM movement has always been about science testing and large scale science and thinking. Constrained now their limit currently is very much by the money to do pilot large scale studies. Evidently the modern movement is not in a position to gather much large data by way of more large-scale hypothesis testing now. Evidently the numbers are not there for reasons of some bad past behavior with money and finances. Particularly now in the internet era of the growing transparency of large and fast data, publishing, and communication a well-being and survival for most any group or organization may particularly rest within their own ethical behavior as a “Leading Economic Indicator”. I wish TM well. For all the world there is much riding on the science of meditating. Hopefully they can come to behave themselves better and really well ethically going forward for all to see. The Meissener Effect. One percent. N-squared. All through the history of the TM movement Maharishi was making observation and hypothesis and based on observation and testing of hypothesis came the actions of policy and direction of the larger TM movement. Science process entirely drove what we see as the TM movement now. That is a clear history of the TM movement. All the movement initiatives all through the decades were always driven as science testing of hypothesis about spirituality. All along Maharishi even from the first moments of his coming to the West was dragging science in to the 21stCentury around spirituality. A problem now is that the perceived less-than-ethical performance of the TM movement itself all along has also stalled a support of participation in and finances for the programs today that are needed to test for data and hypothesis on any of these former fronts. Replication? The old days of large science driving policy initiatives evidently are over.. related mostly to the old TM meditating community's perception around the finances of the TM movement itself. -Buck # Yes quite evidently you and the other anti-meditation anti-science folks here are afraid of where the data is going. Your asserting no data therefore no replication and therefore it can't be talked about or researched. Asserting that it does not exist defies reality and scientific process itself of data, observation, hypothesis and testing . Lawson is looking at how to replicate given the practical constraints of such a project given the data. You completely miss-interpret to your own vile ends. You evidently don't want anything to happen less it disturb your anti-meditation and anti-spiritual grumblings. You contend the research can't be replicated and shouldn't be, well talk about subterfuge and anti-science anti-intellectualism. Next we'll hear from you that there never was such a thing as darshan where obviously there is and then you'll say it is not worth trying to look at for fear of what we might find. Did you just renew your membership down at the local conservative Anglican Church or something that you come on so regressive like you do? -Buck in the Dome Thanks LEnglish5 very much for this more even-handed review of what is current. It is refreshing in the face of all the anti-science and allergy that so many have to TM and spirituality here on this board. -Buck What are you talking about Buck? Lawson used to be the hard core defender of ME research, it's only very recently he's come round to the viewpoint I've held all along, that ME research doesn't show what is claimed for it. So why are you calling me "anti-science"? Criticismis science, that's how it works. Someone has an idea, they collect evidence and publish it. The ME research doesn't show anything beyond statistical manipulation, it sure as hell didn't show a huge decrease in crime. So the ball is back in the court of the people who claim its efficacy to prove it was a real effect. Your problem is that you get all sensitive when someone criticises a pet theory of yours when it's all part of the scientific process. If the ME stands up someone will find a way of demonstrating it. It might help if they had an explanation for how it might work in the first place. Instead all they have is a bunch of wishy-washy new age terms explained in the context of other wishy-washy new age terms. So why should anyone take it seriously and go to the expense of testing it when, as Lawson points out, there appears to be no evidence to try and replicate? LEnglish5 writes: It may have been demonstrated to the satisfaction of true believers, but not to the satisfaction of skeptics. The problem with the ME research is that it is essentially not replicatable on a large-scale. No two cities or groups of cities are really alike, and even using the same city over and over again for a study has many issues. Fred Travis' thesis research on interpersonal EEG coherence (the ME between two people) would be a better route to go, but he was forced to use averages of EEG statistics over a period of many seconds, and it turns out that there is a ceiling effect on that specific measure which makes it unlikely to find the effect consistently. So... what to do? As I pointed out before, there's a more sophisticated way of analyzing global EEG called "EEG microstates," where the average electrical activation of the brain can be examined in tiny slices of time, down to as low as 2-10 milliseconds per slice. That is easily 400x the resolution that Fred used in his original study. The people in charge of the TM organization are well aware of how the ME research is viewed by most non-believers, but there's been no way to satisfy genuine concerns like independent replication until now. The DC experiment not only cost the TM organization several million to conduct, but it required coordinating the lives of 4,000 Sidhas. This is NOT something that can ever be replicated on a regular basis, no matter what kind of resources you have and you can't expect the average skeptical scientist to arrange to do such research, either. When the upcoming EEG microstate research on TM is published, if it turns out that there is a definite pattern associated with pure consciousness, it may be possible to redo Fred Travis' original research with as many as 400x the number of data points in a given TM session. I don't know offhand, how much more sensitive this would make a specific study, but I'm pretty sure it is a LOT more sensitive... ...tried just now to plug various values into online statistical calculators, and it looks like having 400x as many data points roughly makes a given simple experiment 400x as sensitive (sorta -there might be a square-root in there, but it looks like it is a lot more than 20x as sensitive so not sure)... John Hagelin obviously realizes the points above. He was giving the standard party line to me earlier this year about how the research into the ME is reliable, etc., but when I started to point out that there would be potentially 400x as many data points as was available in Fred Travis' experiments and that this meant fully independent skeptics could conduct their own very cheap experiments, he kinda got excited and interrupted me about halfway through my spiel, saying he would talk to Fred Travis about it. Lawson ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, <no_re...@yahoogroups.com> wrote : Maharishi's technologies for creating peace was demonstrated again and again in the 70'ies and 80'ies. No need for any more demonstrations. It is well documented and it's now up to responsible leaders in the world to implement these technologies at a fraction of the costs of waging wars. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, <fleetwood_macncheese@...> wrote : I agree. I am a little surprised that the TMO hasn't done this, as a continuation of Maharishi's initiatives. Of course, there are enough hot spots that it could be an issue to fund all of them. Maharishi always wanted countries to recognize the value of his programs on their own, but it is something very tough to do, while fighting a war. Jordan may be safe enough, and close enough, and friendly enough, for a group of Sidhas, though I can't think of anyplace else. I seem to recall this was done, at least once before in possibly Lebanon? ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, <no_re...@yahoogroups.com> wrote : You are exaggerating as usual. There is no point in putting people in harm's way, which would be grossly irresponsible. That was never the idea. The Maharishi effect doesn't mean that all violence ceases immediately or that you could meditate as a group in the middle of a battlefield and come out unscathed. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, <mjackson74@...> wrote : Oh no! Let 'em put up or shut up! Let 'em go to where the rockets are flying and do so at their own expense. If it really works the way they claim, they will be in no danger. From: feste37 <no_re...@yahoogroups.com> To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, August 5, 2014 10:53 AM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] For The Turq and his Superiors I think they should try it. Nothing else is working. It's just the usual, endless round of violence. The TM group wouldn't have to go into the most dangerous areas. Just being close would probably do it. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, <mjackson74@...> wrote : Thank you Nabby for posting this bold article. Here is the comment I posted on the site - let's see if they have the balls to allow it to be posted: As a former practitioner of transcendental meditation, I know that you are a shill for the TM Movement. You are also not giving full information in your article. IDT refers to the TM Sidhi program, the one that purports to enable people to levitate. In no way shape or form is this nonsense scientifically validated. But let's give you the benefit of the doubt - you want to prove this voodoo technology works then I challenge you to personally lead a group into the most dangerous and violent sections of Israel and the Gaza strip. Let the TM Movement pay every penny of the expense in supporting such a group rather than begging the rest of the world to financially support you (which is your actual intent in suggesting such a group) and see how long you last. I do suggest you make sure to give the Israeli authorities the names of your next of kin, I expect they will need them. From: nablusoss1008 <no_re...@yahoogroups.com> To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, August 5, 2014 9:30 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] For The Turq and his Superiors An Outsider's View of How to Calm Middle East-Gaza Tension http://www.newspronto.com/opinion/4376-an-outsider-s-view-of-how-to-calm-middle-east-gaza-tension
