---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, <no_re...@yahoogroups.com> wrote :
I'm thinking over here that having had an "experience" does not validate "as necessarily true" the thoughts that arise afterwards. We see most folks here thinking otherwise -- that is: they think that their thoughts MUST be resonant with the ultimate reality of their recent experience. This is a good observation. There are experiences where thoughts will be consonant with experience. Awakening tends not to be that way, because it shows that on the level of thought, you had no idea what you were talking about. After a few years, thoughts about that can become more consonant, but by that time, you are pretty well settled into thinking your thoughts are at best tenuously connected to spiritual experiences. Thought are better suited to figuring out how to open a bottle of beer that does not have a twist-off cap and you have not bottle opener. To have seen someone levitate doesn't make one's subsequent thoughts about levitation necessarily true. Even the person who levitates can be expected to have but a mere abstraction for an explanation that is open to every sort of nay-saying. Relativity being such a dynamic, if one knows this, hypocrisy of a deeper degree is needed to validate one's thoughts and yet invalidate the subsequent thoughts of others -- others that had differing experiences. Nabby is a very very sincere poster, for instance, yet we found him being bonked by those who claim to not personally have such blinkeredness when it is obvious to all that everyone is blinkered in some IMPORTANT and PROFOUND manner. Nabby is sincere, but seems unable to accept prosaic, simple explanations for things that are obvious to most people. That is not an argument he is wrong, but his aliens are pretty stupid if that is the only way they can communicate. Look, we only have very local space travel, but we have RADIO and TELEVISION, and BILLBOARDS, we have all sorts of ways to communicate. If you wanted to tell someone something, would you make a crop circle or do something a bit more direct? Stone, glass house and all that. No one gets to toss the first stone. Or the second. Anyone can toss a stone, and be the first if you are fast enough. It is the repercussions in your mind that you have to be cognizant of, after the fact. If you think of them before the fact, maybe you will not toss that rock. I would expect that someone who found fault in others for being a true believer and "running with it," would be especially careful to underline ones obvious conflict of interests. As for me being inside my head and not having had experiences. Harrumph. While this assertion is not couched in the normal cruel-troll manner of FFL-past, it does seem to accuse me of being spiritually bereft of the basic information needed to be clear about spirituality. Only I could know if that's true -- to assert it as true is to do a one-upman-ship deal. I claim that this kind of insinuation is AGAINST THE GUIDELINES. Except by what you say, we cannot know whether you have had experiences or not, so no facts are in evidence except second-hand information about something. You cannot prove you had them, we cannot prove you did not. But it is reasonable to question what you say. Now from a few years ago, I recall responding to you about something you said about experiences. I thought you had had some. Not sure what exactly, but you sounded like someone who had had some sort of experience. Now Barry said he saw what's-his-name levitate. I don't believe it, but I have no evidence one way or the other. There are many possible explanations in the absence of having been there. All we know is Barry said this. Other followers of Lenz also reported similar things. So we have evidence that something happened, but not an explanation. And let's face it, if I came on like gangbusters here and touted my spiritual experiences, the mob would tear my descriptions asunder.....as has been done to every single person who has come here to report suchlike. This is the place where prophets come to not be honored....heh heh. I think people shy away from your posts a bit because sometimes you come on a bit crazy sounding. Another way to talk about experiences is to talk about them as if someone else had them, not in the first person. Maharishi rarely talked about experiences in the first person. There are dangers in talking about experiences, but ultimately experiences are not where it is at. Experiences are the side effect of movement toward awakening, they are artefacts of the garbage removal process. So when the garbage is gone, it smells nicer, but the garbage can (the mind and body) is still there, and all that has happened is you have moved a bit closer to normalcy. FFL is the place where prophets go to find out if they are fooling themselves. Of course we have idiots here too. Wonder which one we are. And, by the way, I have had and continue to have some very profound moments when all my abstractions align -- with a wonderful congruence -- with my heart and thought stream. Moment by moment, if I wish to do so, I can suss out from my flow of consciousness perfect examples of the concepts I hold dear. Doesn't make me correct, but I sure do have experiences. I'll walk this back: everyone has great experiences -- even if they've never personally noted such. Given the human karma of the ego daily dying-into-sleep, being reborn in dreams, and then coming back to life in the morning, what isn't magical? To diss others for not describing it "well" or "logically" or "intuitively acceptably," is at least juvenile and probably an act of aggression.....and AGAINST THE GUIDELINES. You have to speak appropriately for your audience. If you are among scientists (not TM movement scientists), or those familiar with real science, like Barry, or me, you have to be much more precise and informed, or you will appear as a crackpot. Also if you are having experiences that are opening you up, your mind might be doing somersaults for a while as it tries to adjust to this, and thinking might not clearly align with what you are going through, any experience that transcends your current level of mind will not have thoughts that correspond to it for a while. Eventually you will have an experience for which no thought can correspond.
