salyavin, in the movie of the same name, Lucy says time is the basis of
reality. Meaning that if something is traveling faster than the speed of light,
it basically doesn't exist! Of course, this is not a documentary, but fabulous
nonetheless about time and evolution and human development. I'm obviously on a
Lucy kick today. (-:
From: salyavin808 <no_re...@yahoogroups.com>
To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, July 9, 2015 7:32 AM
Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: My two cents
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, <sharelong60@...> wrote :
salyavin, I think the key phrase in your response is what you say about
inferred knowledge, that it lacks the data to demonstrate. I'd agree that it
lacks the data to demonstrate that it's more than just a meaning given by
humans. But I think I've driveled something similar before. (-:
Yep, that is indeed the point. We must be careful what definitions we ascribe
to experiences. to the world as revealed by our eyes and ears, it's really hard
to know what is going on just from looking at something as we see so little of
it.
It takes clever experiment to work things out that aren't immediately available
and the more data we get about everything the more the explanations have to
grow to encompass it all. A decent model of consciousness will have to include
spiritual experiences and why they impress us so much, but will it include a
link to particle physics? I think the mystics are in dreamland on that one. I
don't mind dry and dusty at all.
From: salyavin808 <no_re...@yahoogroups.com>
To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, July 8, 2015 2:13 PM
Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: My two cents
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, <sharelong60@...> wrote :
hi salyavin, glad you're still here. And now I'm really wishing you were here
in Fairfield. Because you'd find many folks who like you find dinosaurs
spiritual. Or birds or trees or even plastic bags! This is what I've been
trying to convey to you and Curtis too. That many people here have grown beyond
a bounded view of human development. Based on their own experiences.
Now, the other topic I'd like to address, and this is my response to your post
about evolution and science and at a deeper level, what is real.
Isn't the determination of what is "real" dependent upon when one takes the
photo? IOW, considering the process during which a caterpillar becomes a
butterfly, if we take the photo at a certain point in that process, we could
say the caterpillar is gone. But is that real? Or said another way, is that the
whole picture?
The trick is you have to be sure that you get as much of the picture before
making statements about accuracy.
In the case of a butterfly it would be impossible to fathom it's life until you
know all the stages but once you do it's impossible to think there is something
else hiding undiscovered. Most aspects of life are the same, what else could
there be to mankind in a real sense as opposed to us just making stuff up about
funny trips we've had?
Spiritual is what things mean to us, not a reflection of any intrinsic value in
nature. We infer that an inner experience is a profound understanding of nature
but you can't have inferred knowledge, there is no such thing. It's just a
guess based on what we want to be true, or lack the objectivity or data to
demonstrate otherwise. Science is how we've learned not to fool ourselves. So
I'm very wary of spiritual claims of knowledge gained through revelation.
With any experience I have, whether during TM or outside of it, I wonder, "Is
this the whole picture?" And I think many of us long term TMers have come to
realize that there is no static whole picture, that it is an ever unfolding
experience of what it means to be a ever unfolding human in an ever unfolding
universe.
Excellent. Rejecting the guru's teaching is a good first step. Just don't
replace it with your own drivel ;-)
This experience makes one a scientist, but one who is full of wonder and joy
about what is being observed. This is what I sense in you too and what makes me
think you'd enjoy a visit to Fairfield.
You say "but" I would say that science starts with a sense of wonder and more
importantly, a desire to explain what we experience. The idea of the scientist
as a dry and dusty individual with no sense of romance is way wide of the mark.
Just don't multiply entities unnecessarily (Occam's razor)
From: salyavin808 <no_re...@yahoogroups.coma
To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, July 8, 2015 12:13 AM
Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: My two cents
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, <noozguru@...> wrote :
But it's the Funny Farm Lounge. Weshould expect knee-jerk abusive and often
obscene ranting from theinmates. I just don't want to see discussion narrowed
to some"sheltered view of spirituality."
Yup. "Spiritual" means different things to different people, it isn't just a
term for airy-fairy daydreams about awakening into a sea of bliss. I find
dinosaurs very spiritual because thinking about the deep past and the sense of
time passing and the unpredictable future of life gives me a sense of
perspective in my day. A sense of place in the universe, and it's real.
On 07/07/2015 01:17 PM, feste37 wrote:
I'm mystified as to why youthink that the alternative to having a moderated
group asit is evolving here on FFL is a "bliss ninny" group.That's absurd. I am
all for vigorous discussion, opposingpoints of view, and honest dialogue. I am
against the kindof knee-jerk abusive and often obscene ranting against
allthings spiritual that went on here up until the last fewweeks. And for all
the abuse Doug has taken, one wouldhardly realize that he has been a good
exponent of exactlywhat you are calling for in your post: a discussion of"where
things have gone" in the TMO and where they aregoing. Many of his comments and
insights over the last fewyears have been very astute.
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, <noozguru@...>wrote :
As faras I'm concerned Rick set the"community standards" as he defines it on
the headerfor thegroup. If you don't like them then start yet anotherbliss
ninnygroup. Those seem to be extremely popular and longlived. :-D
I've been online since the early 1980s. I've seenmany a BBS comeand go. I've
seen heavy handed moderators come and gotoo. Seemsthat late comers have a
creepy idea of what moderationis about.
TM is just dime store yoga taught at Neumann-Marcusprices. itwas better when
it wasn't so pretentious but then mostpeopledidn't know that much about yoga
back then. We'vecome a longways. This is a good forum to discuss where
thingshave gone evenif it riles TBs.
On 07/07/2015 11:38 AM,feste37 wrote:
Ithink it's part of whatmoderating is about. For example, I often read
thecomments section in articles in the Guardian. Onerecentcomment got deleted,
with the following message:
"This comment was removed by a moderator becauseit didn'tabide by our
communitystandards. Replies may also be deleted."
This is very common and I have no objection tosomethinglike it being
implemented at FFL.
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,<noozguru@...>wrote :
Andthat'snot what "moderating" isabout. It's for extreme circumstances
whichareusually rare. Youshould never give moderation over to a
techilliterate. It justmakes them a laughing stock.
Perhaps it's time to create an FFL-Ex YahooGroup. ;-)
On 07/07/2015 11:13 AM,salyavin808 wrote:
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,<no_re...@yahoogroups.com>wrote :
It'sverysimple, Duv. Thereare now some community standards to
beobservedwhenposting to this group. There is nothingremarkable aboutthat. It
is long overdue.
Rubbish, MJ got kicked fornothingthathasn't been said a million timesbefore,
sowhat ifBuck decides it's suddenly beyond thepale tohave anopinion he doesn't
like? That's all itis.Sheeropportunism and hide behind theguidelines.
Wearen'tchildren for god's sake.
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,<no_re...@yahoogroups.com>wrote :
It'sonyouRICK ARCHER. You have not even oncecomehere and explained why you are
okaywithwhat Dougis doing here.
It's as if you said, "Let's fuck uptheplace andsee what comes out of the
ashes." Did yousay that?
We don't know, and that's on you.
Why?
We deserve YOUR ANSWER. We'vesupportedyourownership here for over a decade.
We'vealwayshonored your forbearance and wisdom,butnow, whenwe're all adrift,
you don't show up.
WHAT IN THE FUCKY FUCK FUCK are youthinking, Rick?
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,<curtisdeltablues@...>wrote :
Just as Maharishi said,"themovementbelongs to those who move"(slavelabor
ofcourse) FFL belongs to thosewhopost. TodayI see two
valuablecontributors,Michael andXeno ! have been cannedfollowingBarry's"first
shoe dropped."
I want to weigh in thatIoppose theway content is beingexamined,evaluated,judged
here, and believesincerelythat thepower to ban posters is inthe wronghands.
First of all the Yahoo"guidelines" arejust that. They coverYahoo's backside
andare not meant to be Vediclaws to beenforced. Obviously if
theycaredaboutthese enough to enforce themitwould havehappened long ago
whenthings werereallyriled up on FFL during theinfamousreign ofthe 3 Rs. The
idea that thisplacehasbecome much worse is afabrication.FFL haslightened up
considerably inthelast fewyears. There was no problemto besolvedthat needed
this kind ofcrackdown.And theyare too vague to beguidelines, itbasicallysays,
do what you want onyour sitesbecausedefining limits is too hard.Theyhave
usedairy platitudes and theseare notobjectiverules in any sense of theword.
Itis a mootpoint, Yahoo does not care,it is upto us.
Concerning Feste'spoint aboutXenotrying to hurt that guy inthe realworld,
Ibelieve this is an importantpointtoconsider. This is the onlylevelwhere
Ibelieve banning isappropriate. So Irereadthe post a few times andnoticedthat
thereare no names mentioned. Thismeansthat youwould have to be a regularreader
ofthissite to even understand whathe isreferringto. And if someone is thatfar
upFFL'sbutt, they already knowabout hisactivities. I even knewabout histrip and
Idon't give a S. Moreimportantly hedid notrepeat linking his name totheoffense
so itcould be picked up by searchenginesas aconnections so it
wasunsearchable.This isimportant because whenpeople cameafter meand got canned
for it, itwas afterrepeatedoffenses. One or two wouldhaveslipped bythe radar
but they insistedonmaking it abig deal through relentlessrepe!tition.
In all the hoopla and overreactionwe seemto miss Xeno's point. Thisbehavior
isexactlywhat he nailed it as,hypocrisy. Itshows anamazing degree of lack of
selfawareness notto realize that this moderatorisperpetuatingthe exact thing he
fears fromthemovement:judging adult behavior andfree willbysubjective standards
and thenmetingout thepunishment of exclusion fromthe groupfor thecontrived
"offenses."
Xeno was putting his fingerin theeye ofhypocrisy and did it withoutusingnames
orjacking up the search engines.It wasa nobleact IMO and losing him fromthis
forumis ahuge content loss for athoughtfulperspective. I would
challengeanyoneto matchme post for post ofcontributions hehas
madeintellectually to this forumand youcan showme equally thoughtful postsfrom
thatotherguy with his finger on thetrigger.
Michael is also a loss to thesite.Stephenmentioned that he doesn't
likeposterswith an"agenda." The important aspectofagenda isthat the motive is a
hiddenone, notthat itexpresses a strong personalPOV.Michael wastransparent
about his motivesforpostinghere. He represented a strongPOV andI valuedit. I
wish there was a personwhorepresentedthe movement's side
aspassionately.Thatwould make for some greatconversations. Theonly person who
used to fillin forthat rolewas N. But he was so far frommainstreammovement
thinking and Englishwas asecondlanguage so he was left onlywithpersonalattacks
of which I was thetarget ofmany foryears. I never thought heshould bebanned
forthat. I thought the freedom toexpresshimselfdamned him just fine.
FFL is only as good as it'scontributor'scontent. Losing Barry, XenoandMichael
is aloss to the site whether youagreewith themor not. If the ban had beenfor
Judy,I couldhave written everything justthe same.Generative people, willing
toput timeinto t!his site and create contentmakes thisavaluable place to read.
Manyof thepeople,who are behind this changehave beenverylight on detailed,
thoughtfulcontentover theyears. Provocative peopleinspire usto writehere. It
PROVOKES us. It oftentakesthat kindof provocation to decide totake timefrom
ourbusy lives to share ideas witha bunchofstrangers.
Our moderator is reacting asif thisis hisown intellectual fiefdom
andthebannings sofar have represented hispersonaloffense atposts that he should
havetaken careof byoffering his own clearlystatedopposingopinion on. He cut
theconversationshortbecause he has never shown anyabilityorinterest in this
area ofdetailed backandforth discussions here. So heistaking outthose who do
contribute one byone. Ido notshare the values representedby thecurrentmoderator
and believe thatthis isalreadyhaving a chilling affect oncontenthere. Itis
limiting the value of thissite asanintellectual resource for me.I amgoing
tosend this post in an email toRick inhopesthat he will rescue
thisvaluableresourcefrom the direction it isgoing.
How many contributors have togobefore weall realized this is no longerFFL
asRickintended it anymore?
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