Or like pre-Newton you are possibly just not awake to it as in
'not your experience' in understanding. Your inexperience with it
may not necessarily invalidate the yogi-science. That is okay.
-JaiGuruYou
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
<mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com>,
<no_re...@yahoogroups.com> <mailto:no_re...@yahoogroups.com> wrote :
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
<mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com>, <olliesedwuz@...>
<mailto:olliesedwuz@...> wrote :
This appears to have morphed into a defense vs criticism of the
TMO. Not my fight, though you may want to consider that yogic
science has been around a lot longer than any branch of western
science, and the benefits are there, if not always accepted.
trying to avoid throwing the baby out with the bathwater. PS I
don't think your comments wrt yogic science were racist, though
that may be one reason such science is not taken seriously - the
"not invented here" syndrome.
salyavin808 writes:
OK, I'll consider how long yogic "science" has been
around.....bit of a disappointment really. In all that time I'd
expect a genuinely successful method of inquiry to have amassed a
wealth of useful information about the world but it hasn't at
all* I wonder why?
*Not compared to the world since Newton anyway, and the main
innovation he brought was universality - knowledge of underlying
forces that affect all things, thus making the universe much
simpler to decode. No one had thought of that before. Amazing
really, but ! that's real genius - it makes plain what was hidden
right in front of you.
Since then, and once the religious had been told to mind their
own business, there's been no stopping it whereas the yogi's seem
rather stuck in the same old rut.
Unless I'm mistaken?
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
<mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com>,
<no_re...@yahoogroups.com> <mailto:no_re...@yahoogroups.com> wrote :
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
<mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com>, <olliesedwuz@...>
<mailto:olliesedwuz@...> wrote :
Yeah, there is a pretty strong bias against yogic science in the
West. Possibly even a racial prejudice. Yoga did not evolve out
of either the Western sciences or religions, and as such, is
considered suspect by many.
No, I have no bias against "yogic" science because there is no
such division between east and west in my mind. There is simply
science that works, and science that doesn't work. If two
apparently different disciplines come to different conclusions
about the same thing then one of them is wrong.
And there's no need for the race card as I have no prejudice, we
are brothers under the skin that are brought up in different
cultures. That is all.
In terms of Western science, there is certainly no justification
to spend billions to send space probes to other celestial bodies
and planets.
Whoa! Who says there's no justification and what would that have
to do with the argument anyway? Perhaps we can read this as a
pre-emptive admission that "yogic" science wouldn't be able to
achieve sustained flight due to its obvious confusion about
hopping and gravity, let alone escaping the Earth's atmosphere.
When asked, the people involved mention some fantasy about
colonizing other planets. Excuse me? That is easily as
far-fetched as the Maharishi Effect, in terms of technology's
ability to fulfill such an undertaking. Perhaps in several
centuries, but not any time soon, given the magnitude of such an
undertaking. Yet, because we can send a robot to Mars, no one
questions the veracity of such a fantasy, and the continued
billions spent.
It isn't really as far fetched as the Marshy effect because space
travel is actually possible - we've already done it - and travel
to other stars is clearly permitted by the laws of physics -
there's no mysteriou! s power stopping us doing it. The ME on the
other hand, is lacking both the evidence for it's claimed
efficacy and an explanation of how it might possibly work.
Especially an explanation that isn't in flat contradiction of
everything else we know.
The only justification for space travel we need is that it's
human nature to explore. And that's all the justification we need
for meditation too. What we lack in the TMO is a realistic
explanation for what these altered states mean and whether they
are actually of any real benefit and whether they do actually
lead to some sort of promised land.
And I'm not writing this as a mere passing cynic, if we were
playing States of Consciousness Bingo I would have called full
house decades ago.
Equally so, we can have awareness, so why not investigate it
further? Perhaps some of the initiatives of the TMO have not
apparently borne fruit. Still, it is painting with an awfully
broad and arrogant brush, to extend this reasoning to include all
branches of yogic science.
Don't worry, I'm an equal opportunities sceptic. Every belief or
practise will stand or fall on its own merits and I think that
Marshy's "meditation is all you need" has fallen as Buck's story
of dying people being depressed that they didn't get to the goal
is one of the saddest things I ever heard. Hence my anger at the
perpetual folie a deux of theTMO in it's refusal to admit
mistakes. It's most unscientific, yogic or otherwise.
! Yogic science is the study of consciousness. The emphasis on
flash is so misguided. Flashy experiences can be very
encouraging, but to set a program up to encourage them, is like
passing around a doob and the highest one wins. wtf?
And I forgot to collect my prize!
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
<mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com>,
<no_re...@yahoogroups.com> <mailto:no_re...@yahoogroups.com> wrote :
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
<mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com>, <dhamiltony2k5@...>
<mailto:dhamiltony2k5@...> wrote :
And depression while on the path, .. 'You're not awake?' This
aspect of feeling a type of failing we can find on occasion in
the old meditating community here where there can be some
depression around what might be judged as one's meager sense of
attainment when faced with others' spiritual advancement by
comparison.
In the Dome culture itself there has been all this attention
given to the 'number-one' experience. On occasion there have
been people leaving (life or town) with feelings of a lack of
accomplishment. Some with a depression of maybe having wasted
life or failed by comparison with others.
Of course there is a whole spectrum. Hearing of awakenings can
have its effect of triggering for some. Being in the field
effect of communion with others who are spiritually attuned
evidently has its validity. And then for instance, my wife in
her career practice as an RN vigil- ing with people has found
folks on occasion feeling like midgets for all the time they put
in (and yet others who leave life quite awake, but that is the
different consideration than this acedia-trigger by comparison,
she has been with hundreds of meditators or others as they have
died and seen or been with the whole spectrum).
Rick in his experiment with BATGAP has uncovered and given voice
to a lot of luminaries. I would bet that a feeling of
disappointment or depression is not necessarily uncommon as some
would sit and listen to all these other awakened.
What do you feel about this? Just wondering.
I think it demonstrates how much TM has failed as a spiritual
teaching if people are still so attached to their ego's that they
compare themselves to others for a sense of self worth.
The very fact that the dome keeps records of people having "Grade
1" experiences helps to perpetuate the myth of failure and
indeed, the myth of success. But this idea that the flashy
experiences some people get are an indication of spiritual
advancement is what always kept the cash rolling in to the
TMO, the myth of the seven states of consciousness that gradually
unveils the reality of the world to you and suddenly - after
releasing all the stress "trapped in your nervous system" - you
will emerge into a wonderland of bliss and perfect health and
total knowledge. And all the while lowering crime rates and
creating world peace!
Jesus, it's no wonder people are depressed. How likely was any of
that? But we all fell for it - myself included - and who can
blame us? All anybody wants is better health and more happiness
but you've got to wake up out of the daydream sooner or later,
and I don't mean awakened like the greedy saps Rick interviews,
they're just yet more self-obsessed karma peddlers with books or
DVD's to promote. More promises and thus more disappointments.
This isn't enlightenment and the secret of getting there once one
path has failed /isn't/ to start on another path and then
another. Get some smarts for crying out loud.
There is no unified field of pure awareness, ayurveda is a bunch
of untested folk remedies some of which are demonstrably
dangerous, your house isn't magical because the front door faces
the rising sun on two days of the year, people chanting prayers
to Hindu gods does not influence your day in any way whatsoever,
you will not sidestep the laws of physics by hopping up and down,
your body is not made from Hindu scriptures, the planets don't
know anything about your life that you don't, the shadow of the
moon is nothing to be scared of.
The /real/ reason "the knowledge" gets lost is that it's a load
of bollocks and - like all religious teaching - will not lead you
to a perfect society if you follow it to the letter because
setting limits to inquiry and holding impossible goals as the
purpose of life is only going to end in tears.
If there wasn't so much money in exploiting sincere seekers I'd
honestly wonder how the TMO lasted this long. Once people started
to realise that the crock of gold at the end of the rainbow is
actually a crock of shit you'd think word would get round. But
the longer you've been in a cult situation the more your life is
defined by people who share your beliefs, so it becomes an echo
chamber reinforcing what it is you think you know and are
striving for and thus reinforcing the inevitable disappointment -
one more course, one more yagya, one more session of Marshy vedic
light and aroma therapy (patent pending). There will always be
another "modality" for your consumption - that I can guarantee -
and none of them will do any more for you than anything else has.
Because you've already got all the enlightenment you're going to
get. There is no world of bliss waiting for you if you persevere.
If you're "lucky" you might get some nice trips along the way to
make your foam mates envious and get a gold star from the
dome-keepers but that isn't indicative of spiritual advancement,
I get them all the time. Some people just do, like we get a lot
out of acid and everyt! hing else we do. It's just genes,
probably too much dopamine in my brain. IT /MEANS/ NOTHING.
So does that mean it's all pointless? No, there are things to
learn, mostly how to make the best of a bad situation. You moved
to a small town in the middle of nowhere and now you are
depressed because you never met god? Try enjoying the local
scenery. Jealous of your friends and their flashy highs? Try
liking them for who they are and how they make you laugh. Sorry
that it's me who has to break it to you after all these decades
but enlightenment is when you stop striving, it's when you stop
being jealous or depressed because you think your neighbour got
fresher Kool-aid. Enlightenment is when you accept who you
are and where you are and just make the best of it.
No thanks required.
