--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "wayback71" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB <no_reply@> wrote: > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer > > <fairfieldlife@> wrote: > > > on 2/4/06 11:43 AM, TurquoiseB at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > > > > > > > > Bingo. You have just nailed the fatal flaw in > > > > Maharishi's model. To believe it is true, you > > > > have to believe that before enlightenment, one > > > > has free will, and that afterwards one does not. > > > > > > > > What *changed* in the operating system of the > > > > universe between unenlightenment and enlighten- > > > > ment? Did karma stop working? > > > > > > > > If one has a choice as to how to act before real- > > > > ization of enlightenment, one has the same choice > > > > afterwards. Those who claim otherwise are in my > > > > opinion trying to avoid responsibility for their > > > > actions. They may be avoiding this responsibility > > > > because they are up to no good, or they may be > > > > avoiding this responsibility because they honestly > > > > believe that "God does everything," but it's the > > > > same bottom line. They wish their followers to > > > > cut them slack they would not extend to anyone else. > > > > > > I agree. The enlightened man driving his car makes the > > > decisions necessary to navigate successfully through > > > traffic and arrive at his destination. Why shouldn't > > > other decisions be just as volitional and just as > > > subject to dire consequences if they are made capriciously? > > > > Yup. My position on this is not really about Maharishi. > > It's just an observation I've come to after watching > > various spritual "scenes" for most of a lifetime. I > > really believe that the myth of the infallibility of > > the enlightened is one of the *worst* ideas in history, > > because of its ability to be abused. > > > > Teachers may start out very ethical, and trying their > > best to do things right, as they see "right." But over > > time, there is *immense* pressure from the students to > > assume the mantle of "infallibility." If the model > > taught to these students *reinforces* this belief in > > infallibility, sooner or later most teachers are going > > to fall back on it as an excuse to justify some unpopular > > decision that they have made or action they have performed. > > And then it all starts to do downhill from there. > > > > Personally, I really am in the camp of "before enlight- > > enment, chop wood and carry water; after enlightenment, > > chop wood and carry water." I don't believe that there > > is *any* fundamental change that takes place after > > realization, except on the level *of* realization. > > I agree > > > Same karma, same necessity to make judgements to the > > best of one's ability. snip > > Or, to put this in the framework of some people's enlightenment type experiences, sure > you chop wood and carry water both before and after the Big E. The only difference is that > after the Big E comes the knowledge that everything is happening by itself, on autopilot > and in that case 2. no one "does" anything "wrong" since it all happens anyway and > choice is a total illusion. Therefore (and this BIG) 3. the Enlightened make the same > "mistakes" and "right actions" as the unenlightened. Why would their behavior improve if > you use this model? And...4 The Enlightened know that "they" don't make mistakes, while > the rest of us not yet enlightened blame ourselves as we wrangle over doing the moral > thing. > Maybe it is a question of how much sattva is there in the nervous system of any person, > Enlightened or not? Of course, this means that MMY is not making any mistakes either - > no matter how unkind or greedy the actions are - whew this is crazymaking stuff. > The upshot is that for the unenlightened, we just keep on trying, even if it is an illusion > that we have control. And part of that illusion is that it usually feels better to be around > nice, funny people, honest people, kind people. There are enlightened rascals and > unenlightened saints. I think the perfection that we are all looking for, living in a human > nervous system, is way beyond enlightenement -I don't know what name you call it. Maybe > it only manifests in Sat Yuga. But for here and now, we just have to keep it simple. I think > the TMO hurts people and is dishonest while the technique is a good one. I would advise > anyone to stay away from involvement with the TMO where money or lifeplans are > involved. > Thanks for a *very* sane post
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