I haven't followed this thread closely but: Do people see the tm mov't and or its techniques as being bhakti? How odd. What's remotely bhakti about it? Of course one can appreciate or be devoted to MMY, just like you can with anyone, but I've just never seen bhakti practices or attitudes promoted by the tmo.
How many of the tm people here who think they're bhaktis have been in the same room with MMY in the past 20 yrs? Ever? What personal instruction have you gotten from him recently? (I mean directly, not in your sleeping or waking dreams). Stalkers of celebrities probably think they're bhaktis of them too. I can see someone being devoted to MMY if they do what he asks, but how many of the tm bhaktis here are on purusha, done millionaire courses, or even done the minimum by being recertified? Do you live in an s-ved home? How exactly are you a bhakti of MMY if you're not doing what he explicitly asks? Apparently this thread earlier dealt with MDG being a bhakti of MMY. There's no way Michael would be allowed to represent the mov't in any way whatsoever given his various extracurriculars. How are you a bhakti of a guru when that guru and his mov't won't allow you near their movement? I know, I know, these types think they're the real devotees, not the people who the guru actually has with him. That's what robin carlson used to always say, until MMY sent the tape to the court saying carlson was an idiot. I'm not saying MDG is doing anything wrong, and he can love MMY inside all he wants, but I don't think you can be a bhakti of a guru if you don't do what he says and put yourself completely outside the guru's rules/regs. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Thanks for taking the time away from your heavy reading > schedule to reply. :-) > > I have no further comments, except to point out that > you found a way to ignore all of the situations you > didn't like, when the point of the exercise was to > comment on what *you* would have done if *your* > spiritual teacher, the person with whom *you* have > developed "an emotional alignment with someone you > trust," had asked you to do something like kill an > infidel or poison your kids or smuggle money. > > You've got an "emotional alignment" with this teacher. > You trust them completely. You have that "bhakti > sentiment" going for them in spades. And now they > ask you to do these things. What ya gonna do, eh? > > You won't answer, except to claim that a "real" > teacher like yours would never ask such a thing. > > But they do. Far too often. > > And the commonly-taught dogma about bhakti, as > exemplified by the Amma quote below, tells seekers > that *when* the teacher asks them to do something > like this, they should consider it an order. > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, t3rinity <no_reply@> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB <no_reply@> wrote: > > > > > > For t3rinity, a second post on bhakti: > > > > > > The following is a direct quote from a teacher that quite > > > a few people on this forum admire, on the subject of bhakti > > > and the ideal relationship of a disciple to the guru: > > > > > > "Take even the most insignificant word of > > > the guru as an order and obey it." > > > > > > Now ponder the following insignificant words (paraphrased), > > > spoken to students by modern spiritual teachers and gurus: > > > > > > * Treat others the way you would want to be treated. > > > > Very sane general advice. Like Kants categorial imperative > > > > > * If you want to continue teaching the technique of > > > meditation I once certified you to teach, you have > > > to quit your job, pay my organization several thousand > > > dollars to "recertify" you, and be willing to live > > > anywhere on the planet I tell you to live. Otherwise > > > you're history. > > > > Not an original phrasing and as such wrong. Not my cup of tea > anyway. > > > > > * Spend as much of your time as possible working for the > > > welfare of other sentient beings. > > > > Good ideal. > > > > > * Our enemies are coming to destroy us. The only thing > > > you can do about it is to give this poisoned Kool-Aid > > > to your children and then drink it yourself. > > > > It's grouping insane advises like this, with wisdom which really > shows > > your nasty approach to the subject. Shame on you. > > > > > * Be tolerant of the beliefs of others. > > > > Of course. And dump on them whenever you can. > > > > > * The infidel Salman Rushdie has insulted our Holy > > > Prophet. You not only have our blessing to kill him; > > > if you do you will be rewarded financially in this > > > life and earn eternal life in heaven. > > > > > > * Meditation is important; practice it every day. > > > > Not a bad advice, though not true for everybody. > > > > > > * Meditation is so important that if you do *not* prac- > > > tice it every day you will be dismissed from my > > > university. > > > > > > * Sex is good...practice it lovingly with someone you love. > > > > True for most people > > > > > > * Sex is bad. Give it up entirely if you want to continue > > > studying with me. > > > > Good for some who want it that way. > > > > > > * Sex is bad unless it's with me. Other men use sex to > > > drain your personal power; I don't. Tell your husband you > > > are leaving him and meet me at the airport at noon...we > > > are going to Hawaii for the weekend. > > > > Blah, blah, blah > > > > > * Making money is a good thing because it enables you > > > to help other people; never forget your obligation to > > > assist those less fortunate than you are. > > > > Insightful of course. > > > > > * Money is the root of all evil. The only way to protect > > > yourself from its evil influence is to sign over all > > > your assets to our organization and allow us to dis- > > > tribute it wisely. > > > > Here you go again, warming up your cynical clichees > > > > > * Take this suitcase full of money and sneak it out of > > > the country for me. Don't declare it...we follow > > > Natural Law, not the laws of any country. > > > > Nothing I am involved with. So why should I care? > > > > > > > > * Doubt is an integral part of the spiritual process. > > > Never be afraid to bring up any doubts you have about > > > me or my teachings. Do not sit and worry about these > > > things in the darkness; ask me about them openly. > > > > But you can ask only if you have confidence. > > > > > * Doubt is poison; never focus on negativity. > > > > > * If you feel that I am making a mistake, *tell* me > > > about it...don't sit there like a rock. > > > > > > * I am enlightened, and thus all of my actions are > > > perfect; it is impossible for me to make a mistake. > > > Therefore, do what I say without question. > > > > Haven't heard this from anybody. > > > > > For the bhaktis in our midst, if these "insignificant > > > words had been spoken to you by your spiritual teacher, > > > how many of them would you consider an "order?" How > > > many of the instructions would you follow without > > > question? > > > > It's not in my world. I was always given freedom, complete freedom. > > > > > The problem with "bhakti as total surrender" is that it > > > is based on the assumptions that 1) the teacher knows > > > what he or she is doing, 2) the teacher always has the > > > welfare of the student in mind, and 3) the teacher is > > > not a total, out of control whack job. > > > > Sure. But real Bhakti is total surrender to the Self, not to > another > > ego, not for the sake of the ego or any advantage the ego expects > by > > such an act. Its a unique mystic happening, and nothing of the sort > > you insinuate. > > > > > Sadly, as history teaches us, these assumptions are not > > > always true. Therefore, believing the quote at the top > > > of this post is a path somewhat fraught with danger. > > > If the teacher is cool, treating his or her words as > > > if each one was an order might lead you to the light. > > > > Yet I never said this. I never said that you should treat each > word of > > a teacher as an order. But I believe in an emotional alignment > with a > > teacher one trusts - just the same way you fall in love. > > > > You say: Falling in love can lead to suicide, therefore don't fall > in > > love. Same logic. > > > > > If the teacher is *not* cool, doing the same thing > > > might lead you into total darkness. > > > > Because you expect something from the teacher. There is no real > > alignment, no mystic happening, just an expectation and a pretense. > > > > > > It's a judgement call. And judgement depends on not > > > leaving your intellect at home when you choose to > > > follow a bhakti path. IMO, of course... > > > > I believe very much in common sense. But I also believe in not > > throwing the baby out with the bathwater. But thanks for your > concern. > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! 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