--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "sparaig" <sparaig@> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB <no_reply@> wrote: > > > > < snip > > > > Just my two centimes...I'm just trying to suggest > > > that there is room for people to believe different > > > things about meditation and how it works. Chances > > > are that *none* of them are correct. Acting as if > > > one is correct and all others are incorrect seems > > > to me a great way to develop a lot of negative > > > karma, not to evolve. > > > > Whatever. We were talking about the ole "Transcendental > > Meditation as taught by Maharishi Mahesh Yogi." Vaj and > > you both indicate that you have not only different beliefs > > about what makes TM work, but different beliefs about > > what TM *IS* in the first place. > > And? > > > Which goes back to MY point that any "theory" that > > attempts to explain TM must preserve the anything > > goes/effortlessness nature of the technique, or > > it morphs into something else. > > No, it doesn't. One could still be practicing TM > *exactly* as taught and believe what Vaj and I > believe. You are confusing theory with practice, > and the dogma one believes in with the actuality > of the practice one believes it *about*. I could > believe what I believe and still practice TM > exactly as it was taught to me; if you can't, > that's your problem, not mine. >
So you believe that you can separate yourself into an innocent practioner who disagrees with the explanation that any experience is valid during TM practice and a theoretician who does NOT believe this? So for you, theory, in this context, wouldn't interfere with practice, even though your theory directly contradicts the instructions? > > > > As I pointed > > > > out, a perfectly valid TM session could involve thinking > > > > the mantra once and being distracted by internal/external > > > > phenomena for the next 20 minutes. > > > > > > > > You seemed to believe thatthat could NOT be a valid meditation > > > > session, or so your "good luck with that" response suggests. > > > > > > I don't think Vaj ever suggested that sitting lost in > > > thought wasn't "valid." As I read what he said, he's > > > suggesting that IN HIS OPINION it isn't particularly > > > *effective*. I would agree. That doesn't mean that we > > > didn't understand or "get" the TM dogma that surrounds > > > this issue, merely that we don't buy it. > > > > Fair enough, but *I* buyit becuase it DOES seem to work quite > > effectively for little ole ADHD me. > > And that's just FINE, dude. I have never said any > differently. I'm not trying to SELL you my theory. > It's MINE. It doesn't affect you in any way, unless > you allow it to. I don't accept the theory. You DO accept the theory. I claim that your insistence that one experience during TM is automatically better than another taints the practice. > > > > There's a difference. Believing in a different theory > > > doesn't mean that the other person is flawed, or that > > > they didn't hear and understand the same things you > > > did when you were listening to the TM teachers who > > > were parroting what they were told to say. It just > > > means that the other person has chosen not to take > > > what they were told as some kind of cosmic truth, the > > > *only* way that things could be described. Vaj is > > > expressing an opinion; he's entitled to that opinion. > > > And *his* opinion has no effect whatsoever on you > > > or your own opinions unless you allow it to. > > > > Sure, whatever, but once you start assigning value > > judgements to one particular experience over another, > > you're no longer practicing TM. > > NOT NECESSARILY. Vaj, as far as I know, DOES NOT > PRACTICE TM. Neither do I. What we believe about > meditation and what makes a meditation session > effective doesn't affect TM in the slightest. > How would you know, not being a TMer any more, by your own admission? > Are you trying to say that your mind is so weak > that if someone *else* suggests a different way > of looking at meditation and how it works, that > is going to affect how *you* meditate? :-) > If I accept it, sure. Innocence is lost when you start assigning value judgements. That you don't see this is quite telling. > It's THEORY, dude, and furthermore a theory pro- > posed by two people who do *not* practice TM and > probably never will again. We are not trying to > SELL you our theory or "convert" you to believing > in it. It's just FINE for you to believe what you > believe today. You are reacting as if by even > mentioning our theories we are putting the > sanctity and purity of *your* meditation in > some kind of jeapardy. > Nope, but I argue that theory and practice during TM are inseparable. You can practice TM without ANY kindof theory, but any acceptable theory from a TM technique perspective needs to explain things in terms of the practice -- that is, the innocence of the technique. > Your position seems to be based on the idea that > different theories of how meditation works might > have "cooties" and somehow "infect" those who > hear them and render them incapable of practicing > their meditation the way they were originally > taught to. Has anything you've ever heard here > or on a.m.t. ever affected how you choose to > practice TM? If not, then I rest my case. > Lighten up. > Since the technique of TM embraces the non-importance of one experience over another, any acceptance theory of how TM works that DOES embrace the importance of one experience over another, by definition, makes one's practice non-TM. ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
