On Apr 8, 2006, at 2:19 PM, jim_flanegin wrote:

> Yep- that all makes sense. The one thing we should establish in this
> life is groundedness, centeredness, identification with the Self,
> the cosmos, Brahman. Just makes the rest of it manageable, and much
> more interesting. Otherwise we just as you say, tumble around with
> our minds closed, even to our selves! Life or death, get centered.

That's exactly one of the points of my post, there is no center. You  
are truly beyond space and time. There are no reference points, no  
"referentiality". Part of the terror of doing a retreat in total  
darkness--and in some parts of the Shank. trad. they do an 11 month  
dark retreat--is when you do come back to the "body" there's still no  
reference points. No inside or outside, the vase has shattered. 


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