--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, t3rinity <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj <vajranatha@> wrote:
> >
> >
> > On Apr 9, 2006, at 4:59 AM, t3rinity wrote:
> >
> > > From what I know, and what I have seen
> > > in the Satsang movement, this is exactly what is being done
there: The
> > > truth of non-duality is being pointed out and explained in terms of
> > > his own everyday experience, it is being discussed, and quite often
> > > people are guided towards self-inquiry ('who am I'.)
> >
> >
> > Yes this is what is happening in some cases IMO. Pointing out.
>
> It is ALWAYS happening. Its the core of the teaching: that anybodies
> ultimate identity is Brahman, the Self whatever you like to say.
> Should I give you quotes of the Ribhu Gita (highly recommended by
> Ramana), or Avadhuta Gita?
>
> > However at the same time after some are "introduced" they go on
> > rather quickly to claim Buddhahood, Unity Consciousness (brahma-
> > chetana), Cosmic Consciousness (turiyatita) or in the case of TMO
> > people, they go on to claim what "Maharishi said".
>
> I don't know about that. In the Satsangs that I observered, nobody
> stands there saying: 'I am enlightened and you are not' I indeed have
> never heard of this.
I don't see Vaj stating that. You maybe are reading into his post
something that is not in the words.
> You may here something like: 'Enlightenment is a
> concept, get rid of it' or, ' you are already what you are seeking'
> etc. All these claims can be perfectly substantiated by scriptures.
I
> am happy to cite, if you don't believe me. So, the point for me is
> not, is there anybody invalidly claiming enlightenment, or even
> different levels (equating them with completely different terminology
> like CC or UC, something I have never heard in the Satsang scene), but
> rather, does this format of interaction in modern Satsang conform to
> something valid, as described in the ancient scriptures, and yes it
> does.
I can't comment on the satsang scene, but my observations of things
such as apparent confusion and "mixing" views of dual andnon-dual
states, and the apparent quick and unexplained jump from consciousness
being aware of itself to Brahman Consciousness have been about posts here.
> There are so many Shankaracharyas, giving discourses on Advaita,
> and they make no secret that they aren't enlightened.
Which ones? And if they are not "enlightened" by their definitions
(classical) -- perhaps theirs is a "higher" bar than those
self-proclaiming it.
> > In every case I am
> > aware of, none of these people would fit the definition of those
> > states or the experience. There's a strong element of grandiosity in
> > it all.
>
> To you. I haven't oserved it. To the opposite, the Satsang movement
> plays down enlightenment as an 'attainment'. It rather makes it
> accessable, just always referring you to the next step. (Like: who is
> asking this question?)
Again, not the case with posts here.
>
> >
> > "Masters of old lashed out at those who claimed to be
> > enlightened yet refused to be tested, calling them
> > "earthworms living in the slime of self-validated
> > satori"."
> > -Philip Kapleau Roshi
> >
> > How many were tested by their teachers? would be my
> > question--but I already know the answer.
>
> I was investigating the Satsang movement in the context of its
> historic origin,
which is good to do
> while you mix it with Zen Buddhism and Tibetan
> Vajrayana. Now that is weird.
well, the discussion has been on "modern" neo-statangs, the FF
satsang, and pirmarily, IMO, posts on FFL.
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