>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" <jstein@> wrote:
> >
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "sparaig" <sparaig@> wrote:
> > >
> > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" <jstein@>
wrote:
> > <snip>
> > > > "The rACC...plays a critical role in the awareness of the
> > > > nastiness of pain: the feeling of dislike for it, a loathing
> > > > so
> > > > intense that you are immediately compelled to try to make it
> > > > stop."
> > > >
> > > > Not awareness of pain, but awareness of the "nastiness"
> > > > of pain.
> > >
> > > So someone in CC doesn't think that pain is nasty?
> >
> > Read it again, Lawson.
>
> ... Pain triggers responses in the brain. There may be some
difference in how people in CC
> respond to pain, but I doubt if it has anyting to do with
responding to pain as "less nasty"
> than it was prior to CC.
"Loathing so intense you're immediately compelled
to try to make it stop" doesn't sound like "balanced
in pleasure and pain" to me.
> > > > I'd suggest it wouldn't be a matter of CC "shutting
> > > > down" the rACC, but rather of not triggering its
> > > > activity in the first place. The rACC seems to be a
> > > > mechanism for making you take action to neutralize
> > > > whatever is causing the pain *because pain is often
> > > > a signal that the integrity of the physical organism
> > > > is being threatened*.
> > >
> > > And this would be a bad thing because?
> >
> > I said it would be a bad thing where?
>
> You seemed to be implying tha CC changed this response in some way
as though that
> were a good thing.
Not necessarily. It's an ignorance-type thing as opposed
to a CC-type thing. For the ignorant, it's a *good* thing,
because physical survival is required if you're gonna
spread your genes, the Prime Directive of the state of
ignorance.
> > > > But if you aren't attached to the physical organism
> > > > because you identify with the Self rather than the
> > > > self, you don't need that alarm system to make you
> > > > perceive the pain as intolerably unpleasant so you
> > > > spring into action to neutralize it. Whatever is
> > > > causing the pain is no longer a threat to your
> > > > survival because you don't experience your physical
> > > > survival as necessary for your existence.
> > >
> > > Which is a plain stupid thing for CC to do from an evolutionary
> > > perspectie and isn't supported by any research that I'm aware
> > > of.
> >
> > Has it ever *been* researched?
>
> Response to pain during meditation is being researched. Response to
pain outside
> meditation is also being researched. I don't believe any evidence
has been found that TM
> meditation (at least) changes the way the brain reacts to pain, at
least in the sense of
> deactivating specific centers.
OK. I'd just like to know whether they've looked
specifically at the rACC.
> > It isn't "stupid"; it allows you to make a *choice*
> > about whether to pay attention to the pain and
> > what's causing it, or just to ignore it, depending
> > on the situation. In some cases that ability could
> > actually *save* your life (I'm thinking, e.g., about
> > the guy who sawed off his arm when it was caught
> > between two rocks in an isolated place; if he hadn't
> > done that, he'd have starved to death.)
>
> Yeah, but one doesn't have to deactivate certain centers of the
brain in order to obtain that
> ability...
Well, he had to neutralize, or at least lessen,
the rACC response somehow, otherwise he wouldn't
have been able to do it.
<snip>
> > > There's no "side effect" to CC
> >
> > Sure there are, at least in the sense I'm using
> > the term.
>
> I don't think so. CC is just the long-distance communication of the
parts of the brain
> acting in a way that supports the experience of PC along with
relative states. There are
> changes in how someone responds to various stimuli but they are not
along the lines of
> shutting down normal brain centers.
Not "shutting down," in this case, but simply making
unnecessary, at least that particular response.
Maybe it's even selective in CC: the response is
appropriate to the situation. If you're being
burned at the stake for heresy, or nailed on a cross,
with no chance of escaping, or you're in end-stage
cancer, it would be minimal; if the painful situation
is one you can do something about, it would be normal.
Or maybe you can control it consciously because of
the global connectivity aspect you go on to mention.
>
> >
> > : its just the brain better maintaining the global connectivity
> > > of Pure Consciousness along with the normal activation of
various
> > states whether major
> > > states like waking, dreaming and sleeping, or localized
> > activiations like paying attention to
> > > music, thought or pain or pleasure. CC isn't something UNusual -
-
> > its just plain old
> > > normalcy at its most normal.
> > >
> > > The rACC or whatever doesn't change its activiation much, if
> > > any, in CC.
> >
> > And you know this how?
>
> Because there's no mention of it in any of the EEG and fMRI
research findings on TC or CC
> that I hav heard of.
>
> One of the guys that invented PET did so so he could investigate
the effects of
> accupuncture on pain. He's been working with OrmeJohnson on the
brain imaging of the
> pain response during TM. I don't' recall anything remotely like
this coming out of their
> research though I'm not sure its been published yet.
>
> >
> > The brain becomes a bit more efficient in CC, but CC doesn't
lead to
> > some
> > > drastic increase or decrease of the activation levels of the
> > various parts of the brain
> > > outside of TM practice --they just work *together* more
efficiently.
> >
> > You might want to read the whole article, actually.
> > That would give you a clearer picture of what's
> > involved here, I think.
> >
> > (I am *not* suggesting that this particular scanning
> > technique for chronic pain patients induces anything
> > like CC, by the way.)
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