--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "sparaig" <sparaig@> wrote: > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "curtisdeltablues" > <curtisdeltablues@> wrote: > > > > > > That was really interesting, thanks! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj <vajranatha@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > On Jun 14, 2006, at 3:20 PM, curtisdeltablues wrote: > > > > > > > > > Good points. This one interested me the most: > > > > > > > > > > "rather by recognizing that mysticism is completely > > > > > beyond science." > > > > > > > > > > It is beyond the scientific method in its focus and range, but I > > > > > think Sam Harris would claim that when it talks about how the > > > > > world "is" mysticism enters the field where logic does apply. You > > > > > mentioned that Schroedinger is a physicist, a world class one at > > > > > that from what I understand. But Physics is a field driven by > math > > > > > skills and I don't think that gives him a leg up on this kind of > > > > > discussion over say...you or Chopra. It is all speculation about > > > > > life. He leaves his credibility in his own field far behind on > these > > > > > topics. Because you have gained something from it, I will spend > > > > > some more time thinking about it. > > > > > > > > Curtis you might enjoy the following brief talk with Ken Wilber > where > > > > he answers the question "does quantum physics prove god?" where he > > > > rather elegantly explains that the quantum state is not unmanifest > > > > spirit/brahman/the tao/PC. Interesting talk. Not so interesting > for > > > > the TM quantum mysticism, but rather embarrassing. I think by > > > > extension you could conclude that a mysticism based on Quantum > > > > physics is pretty bad mysticism... > > > > > > > > It's on page two: > > > > > > > > http://www.kenwilber.com/professional/media/index.html > > > > > > > > > > > > > Well, let's see, Ken Wilber, a rather superficial (sorry Judy) > philosopher who has had a few > > grad-level QM courses as part of his work in biology, concludes that > QM can't have > > anything to do with "true mysticism," whatever that means, vs John > Hagelin, who published > > a bunch of papers in the field, including the 27th most important > paper of all time in the > > field. > > Couple things, Lawson. I don't recommend Wilber > as a profound philosopher per se, but I do think > he has some very clear insights into various > aspects of the relationship between science and > mysticism. I don't think this particular "talk" > touted by Vaj shows those insights at their best, > however. I'd recommend instead his introduction > to "Quantum Questions" and several of the chapters > in "Eye to Eye." > > Also, I'm not at all sure what Wilber says in this > vein contradicts Hagelin. I think their approaches > come from very different angles and that they aren't > really talking about the same thing.
He mentions the "so-called experts" from what the Bleep Do We Know, which presents Hagelin as a top Quantum Physicist. I'd be greatly surprised if he did NOT mean to denounce Hagelin's talk in the movie. > > > Yeah, anyone that listens to Ken WIlber about anything shows bad > mysticism. > > (You meant Hagelin here, not Wilber, right?) I meant Wilber. > > > Not only is his treatment of QM and strings (the most popular theory > has 10 dimensions, > > not 11 --the 11th is used to reconcile the various 10-dimensional > theories with each > > other, IIRC) superficial, but his treatment of enlightenment is > equally superficial. > > > > Sheesh. This is the guy that everyone worships? > > How much have you read of what he's written? > > I was going by the talk, which was represented as showing that anyone who talks about QM and mysticism is doing bad mysticism. > > > > > Wotta maroon. > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> Something is new at Yahoo! Groups. Check out the enhanced email design. http://us.click.yahoo.com/SISQkA/gOaOAA/yQLSAA/UlWolB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
