Well, yes. Off FFL list and from out of FF, someone watching all this e-mailed asking an academic question: "So, is the Capital readmitting people to the dome? Do people actually lie to get back in? Why?"
Lie? Well, yes by the hundreds evidently. Yes, some people lie to git into the Domes. By the hundreds evidently even if only by ommission. Why? ShivaMa's letters cover some various reasons. People obviously like meditating in large group and will also lie to be able to do it. Then there is the thing also about world peace in this time of religious intolerance etc. >...Same thing with S(Shiva) Ma, who should've > just acted in such a way to be able to do her program in the dome. > Act in context. Rick writing: "So you're saying that the "context" of the TMO is that you have to lie to participate in it, and that she should have abandoned her principles to get what she wanted. ...But her situation wasn't so nuanced as the examples you gave. She was being asked point blank about her past and future participation with saints, and she would have had to lie blatantly to give the "right" answer something she didn't feel comfortable doing." Shivama's letters: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/message/108731 ShivaMa writing: Because no one > asked them about the saints they have been visiting for years, they > of > course did not volunteer that information, knowing they would be > "BANNED" if they did. ShivaMa writing:> John, I just want you to know that many, if not most of the people > who > also visit the saints that come to Fairfield, got their dome badges. > Believe me I know them all, because I help host the saints and I > helped set up the local Hindu Temple at 800 west Burlington { the old > Tropicana Center} Over the years we have hosted many saints and have > held numerous yagnyas. Do people lie to git in to the Domes? By the hundreds. -Doug in FF > > FWD:From Shiva Ma Ryan, "My Dome Rejection" > Please share this letter I wrote to John Hagelin with anyone you > think > may benefit from it. > All Love, > Shiva Ma > > My Dome rejection > > Shiva Ma Ryan to John Hagelin > > Aug 2 (5 days ago) > > Dear John, > I was told to e-mail you if I had any trouble getting accepted at the > dome. Hence this letter to you, because I have been faced with one of > the most difficult choices of my life. John will you PLEASE share > this > letter with Maharishi, as I want Him to know "THE REAL TRUTH" about > what has happened in Fairfield. Please read everything I have written > in this e-mail John, I have tried to be as honest and as "TRUTHFUL" > as > I can. I also have suggestions at the end of this e-mail, that may > benefit EVERYONE! > > When I applied for the course, I was told I would need more time to > be > processed. I knew I probably would not get an immediate acceptance, > because a few years ago I applied and was asked if I practiced any > techniques other than Maharishi's. I went to India with a GREAT saint > from Asam, India, Shree Maa, in 1999, and I told the man questioning > me "I had experienced EVERYTHING that India had to offer, and that > what I learned in private, I kept private. I had asked the question > to > over 600 people that I initiated, back in the seventies: "Everything > we learn in private, we keep private. Do you agree?" This answer > seemed the most truthful and appropriate to me, yet I was not > accepted then for the dome. > > This past Saturday July 29th, I was encouraged by my sister and > brother-in law and several friends at a birthday party, that I should > apply now for the dome, because they were accepting EVERYONE! > Regardless of past associations with saints or other techniques, I > was > told EVERYONE was WELCOME BACK!!! The words "All sins would be > forgiven" were used. Those words deeply pinched my heart. I have > never > considered spending time with Fully Awakened Divine Beings a sin. I > have been incredibly fortunate to travel with many saints over the > last twelve years. Each ONE I always experienced as MAHARISHI. Each > ONE, that I was BLESSED by, deepened my INCREDIBLE LOVE, RESPECT and > ETERNAL GRATITUDE to Maharishi for all that He had given me in the > past. Maharishi was my FIRST GURU!!! Yet Maharishi became > inaccessible to me. The last time I saw Him was at The 7000 Course in > 1983. My heart was longing for him, So I felt that one by one He > started sending different saints to BLESS ME!!! Over the years, I > have received the GRACE and BLESSINGS from over 15 different saints > that have visited Fairfield since 1997. In 1994 my first GREAT > BLESSING was from MOTHER MEERA, in Germany. She changed my life > forever... I have had the GREAT fortune of traveling with many of > these DIVINE BEINGS. I am so GRATEFUL for the Love and Grace I have > been given from these PURE DIVINE MANIFESTATIONS of Gods and > Goddess's. > > I want to offer my HUMBLEST GRATITUDE to Maharishi for always > remaining in my HEART of HEARTS, since November 19, 1971. I will be > in > HIS ETERNAL DEBT for the GRACE HE SHOWERED upon me over and over > again > throughout all these years. JAI GURU DEV MAHARISHI! I LOVE YOU SO > MUCH..... > > At the course office, Jeff Cohen was so sweet and kind to me on the > phone, going over the guidelines for acceptance for the course. > However the words he used when telling me what I needed to do, to get > my badge, still penetrate me like millions of daggers in my HEART. I > have not been able to shake them. {Please ask Maharishi to help me > with this.} He said I would be able to get my badge if: "I SEVERED > any connection I had with any saints and SEVERED the use of any > techniques that they had taught me, and that I would NEVER establish > a > connection with them again or practice any other techniques other > than > Maharishi's, EVER AGAIN. And that I had to put all of this in > writing, > promising that I would do this. For GOD'S SAKE, How in the name of > WHOLENESS! ONENESS! DIVINITY! and SELF REALIZATION! could I promise > that???????? My SOUL WOULD NEVER ALLOW THAT.... > I could have lied and said anything that Jeff wanted to hear, got my > badge, and no one would have known. THAT IS NOT ME, THAT IS NOT HOW I > REPRESENT TRUTH AND DIVINITY. I DO NOT, AND I WILL NOT, EVER LIE to > achieve a small gain in the present, who would I be lying to???? ONLY > MY SELF!!!!!!!! > > When Jeff was explaing to me how Maharishi said that one should not > cross the river in two boats, it causes confusion. I told him: "I AM > NO LONGER IN THE BOAT, I AM ON THE ISLAND!!!! I AM ENJOYING THE GOAL. > I PARKED MY BOAT ON THE SIDE OF THE SHORE, MANY YEARS AGO, AND LEFT > IT > THERE!" There are other people in Fairfield in the same place that I > AM. We are not nor could we ever again "BE CONFUSED" We are SELF > REFERRAL NOW!!! No mistakes CAN be made. I LISTEN TO MY GOD SELF > ALWAYS... My OWN INNER VOICE SPEAKS TO ME ALWAYS!!! I AM not > MAHARISHI or MOVEMENT REFERRAL anymore. The same SELF that is in ALL > BEINGS, IN THE ONENESS OF ALL BEINGS, IN THAT SELF LUMINOUS SELF, > THAT > IS WHERE I RESISDE! > > The reason we have been asked to come together now in the DOME is the > urgency of the World situation. It is because of a war about > "RELIGIOUS PREJUDICE, that we are being asked to assemble." It seems > so sad to me that in our Own TM Movement we are "fighting amonst > ourselves," We are lying to each other. By not allowing each > expression of Divinity to be "TRUE TO ITSELF" We have directly > encouraged each other to "LIE" rather than stand up for what we > believe in. When I started TM in 1971 I was told I would not have to > give up my Religion or my beliefs or change my life in any way, just > meditate twice a day. Please do not tell me, that now after all these > years that was "JUST A LIE" I became a Governor to help create a > better world, "A HEAVEN ON EARTH" Unless the policies at the dome > are > changed immediately to "EMBRACE" the life-styles and choices > of "ALL" > of it's members, we are just promoting "A LIE." How could we possibly > "HELP" the world if we cannot even "HELP" OUR "SELVES". > > I felt responsible to let you know how many people have lied to get > into the dome. Many peolple, in conversations at Revelations and > local > restaurants have laughed about how they got away with something, > about > how clever they were, that they fooled the Movement, making a joke > about the whole thing. This has DEEPLY saddened me. Because no one > asked them about the saints they have been visiting for years, they > of > course did not volunteer that information, knowing they would be > "BANNED" if they did. One of them actually said to me; "My life and > what I do is nobody's business, not the Movement's, not Maharishi's. > I > do what I want to do and I will continue to do whatever I want to do. > I will lie through my teeth if I have to, it's none of anyone's > business, what I do! And I have NO GUILT about it!" > > John, I just want you to know that many, if not most of the people > who > also visit the saints that come to Fairfield, got their dome badges. > Believe me I know them all, because I help host the saints and I > helped set up the local Hindu Temple at 800 west Burlington { the old > Tropicana Center} Over the years we have hosted many saints and have > held numerous yagnyas. I always try to graciously make the different > saints stay in Fairfield "WONDERFUL!" It seems to be my job to do > this, as I always find myself at the feet of each of them. I have > bowed to the feet of each BEAUTIFUL expression of DIVINITY!!! The > same feet that I first bowed to in MAHARISHI, I BOW TO ALL BEINGS... > Yet in all BEINGS " I BOW" to LORD SHIVA ONLY!!! He is expressed in > so many different DIVINE FORMS!!!!! Incarnations of Gods and > Goddesses alike... > > All of the saints that visit Fairfield are so FULL of PRAISE and > GRATITUDE to MAHARISHI for the incredible HEAVENLY PLACE HE HAS > CREATED HERE!!!! They ALL with no exception credit HIM with A" HUGE > TRANSFORMATION FOR THE WORLD" THEY ALL LOVE FAIRFIELD!!! They all > give > gratitude to HIM, for the atmosphere here. > The majority of people who got their dome badges were not asked the > incredibly difficult questions I was asked, so they did not have to > lie face to face to someone, so they seem to feel justified that they > are in some ridiculous way to me, not lying to anyone, but I feel > they are lying to themselves. That to me is the "GREATEST SIN OF ALL" > Also that they are not being honest to MAHARISHI!!! hurts my heart. > I > feel they are betraying what they believe in, and how they choose to > live their lives, "WHEN NO ONE IS WATCHING." They are not honoring > the GRACE and BLESSINGS they have been given from so many BEAUTIFUL > ENLIGHTENED BEINGS. What an insult to those saints, what an insult to > Maharishi to misrepresent themselves, just because they didn't "GET > CAUGHT," Just becauce they were not put through this test, they can > justify this betrayal. They are too scared or intimidated to stand > up > for what they believe in, they are so worried about being exposed, > about losing their "precious Dome Badge" Yet they are truly only > "FOOLING THEMSELVES." GOD BLESS THEM ALL TO REALIZE THIS FOOLISH > MISTAKE! > > I hope this letter was heartfelt, And that you read it in > non-judgement and that you receive some guidance from Maharishi how > to > handle this situation. > I have a few suggestions for You: > 1. Give a DOME BADGE to > whomsoever asks for one... > All Siddhas should > be "WELCOME". > > 2. Require only this: that while > one is in the DOME, > they only do the prescribed > DOME PROGRAM... > > 3. That everyone's personal > choices regarding > Spiritual Matters remain > their own and are > TOTALLY > RESPECTED!!!!!!!!!!!!!! The choices made > should not interfere with > anyone's "Dome Acceptance" > > > 4. That a soul's choice of a > "Personal Guru" is not > forced upon them...That > they can love and respect > Maharishi and do his > programs, and yet have their > own "Personal Guru". > > 5. That The MOVEMENT is BIG > ENOUGH TO > EMBRACE ALL SAINTS AS ONE > EXPRESSION OF > THE SAME > DIVINITY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! > > ALL GLORY TO GURU DEV AND ALL GLORY TO DIVINITY IN ALL BEINGS!!! > ALL GLORY TO ALL THE MOVEMENTS DEDICATED TO DIVINITY > With MY DEEPEST LOVE FOR ALL EXPRESSIONS OF DIVINITY > > Shiva Ma Ryan > {formerly Jeanne Lynn Ryan or {Jeanne Ryan Borden- {married name} > > > >"dhamiltony2k5" > > > > <dhamiltony2k5@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > A lasting peace and reconciliation? Reconciling the > >numbers, > > > >what > > > > > would the TMOrg need do, to reconcile > > > > > with its people? It had got pretty ugly in recent years, > >what > > > >could > > > > > the elements of a lasting peace and reconciliation for the > > TMorg > > > > > with its meditators? > > > > > > The defining terms of the TMorg guidelines are still the same, > > >that > > > people must `sever all connection with other saints to > > > participate'. That people sever all other spiritual practices > >of > > > other saints and that people never reestablish a connection with > > > other saints or the spiritual practices of other saints. That > > > people must put this all in writing to join. > > > > > > > > > Jeanne "ShivaMa' wrote a terrific letter to MMY through Hagelin' > > contact. It was a good letter which in the end asked these > >things: > > 1)Give a Dome Badge to Whomsoever asks for one 2. Require only > > this: that while one is in the Dome, they only do the prescribed > > Dome Program 3 That everyone's personal choices regarding > > Spiritual Matters remain their own and are totally respected. 4. > > That a soul's choice of a "Personal Guru" is not forced upon > >them . > > 5 That the Movement (Tmorg) is big enough to embrace all saints as > > one expression of the same divinity. > > > > It is a good letter that is comprehensive of the problem. I will > > try to get a whole digital version from Jeanne Shivama for general > > reading. In a way, she was the perfect person for all of > >Fairfield > > to go through the application process and smoke it out. > > > > Jai Guru Dev, > > -Doug in FF > > > > > > The personal interpretation of the administration (Jeff Cohen) > is > > > that "M feels disappointed and that it is a betrayal of > everything > > > he has given people", that it was never a guideline that "all > sins > > > are forgiven" or to "forgive and forget" about people seeing > other > > > spiritual saints. "But that from this moment the guidelines > hold". > > > > > > > > > With the Tmorg, that regardless as MMY was saying when > > > asked, `forgive and forget' or the notion that "all sins are > > > forgiven" got about, that these are not the guidelines for doing > > the > > > group meditation program with the TMorg. "From this moment on > the > > > guidelines hold" as Jeff Cohen directly explained to Jeannie > Ryan > > > who they accuse of being an Ammachi devotee. An irony if you > knew > > > Jeannie is that she is not a `devotee' of Ammachi. Regardless, > > > Jeannie was denied acceptance and entry to the dome group > > meditation > > > on campus on these terms and interpretation. That is the status > > > quo. It was a sad day in FF. > > > > > > JGD, > > > -Doug in FF > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Word on the street > > > > > > > Evidently they (the TMOrg) are unchanged and intransient in > their > > > positions, methods and ways. Unrepentant they are back to > their > > > ways of insisting that people recant their visits with the > saints > > > and also sign contracts, pledging to never be associated with > or > > > see > > > the saints etc.. to be able to also meditate in the group > > > > meditations. > > > > > > > > "forgive and forget" was evidently a feel-good myth as ploy to > > > have > > > > people come in to register. > > > > > > > > For instance, ask Jeannie Ryan about her experience getting > > vetted > > > > this week for registration for the dome meditation program. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Advice from real peace-mediators who go in to torn communities > > to > > > > help moderate peace between people, one of the first things > they > > > try > > > > to do is to get a ceasefire at least between parties. There > are > > > > other sequential steps in the process too. Contrition? The > > Tmorg > > > > is not even close to even a ceasefire with its meditating > > > community. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > For instance, while Ammachi visited FF this last month (July > > > 06), > > > > > thousands did come out of the woodwork here to see her. The > > > > > meetings became like a Kumla-Mela of the old FF TM > meditating > > > > > community here. All kinds of lit good people coming out of > > the > > > > > countryside here. With the first two meetings Amma gave > > darshan > > > > to > > > > > about 4000 people here. A lot of those people were > > Fairfudlian > > > TM > > > > > people and their families. Then there was the next day and > > > night > > > > > program too. Possibly about 6000 darshans in total. > > > > > > > > > > Was interesting to see there were a lot more TM people > > `coming > > > > > out' this year with so many TM people now having been > > generally > > > > `de- > > > > > certified' and also with MUM & MSAE faculty and staff being > > `let > > > > go' > > > > > in recent years. Showed a lot of meditators in the > community > > > > > unattached and un-beholden to MMY or the TMorg. > > > > > > > > > > That simply is, the state of the status quo in FF for the > > > TMOrg. > > > > > > > > > > It still leaves the practical questions: Reconciling the > > > numbers, > > > > > what would the TMOrg need do, to reconcile > > > > > with its people? It had got pretty ugly in recent years, > what > > > could > > > > > the elements of a lasting peace and reconciliation for the > > TMorg > > > be > > > > > with its meditators? > > > > > > > > > > -Doug in FF > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "dhamiltony2k5" > > > > > <dhamiltony2k5@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Reconciling the past, > > > > > > > > > > > > >how likely is it that > > > > > > > they'd > > > > > > > > > be open to the rest of us? (Not that there'd even be > > > that > > > > > many > > > > > > > willing > > > > > > > > > to go.) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sal > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > JohnY writes, > > > > > > The quaility of the current programs speak to both > > Maharishi's > > > > and > > > > > > the > > > > > > TMO's openness. That's why the participation is as it is. > > > 27,000 > > > > > > siddha's ... less than 2000 participating. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Doug writing: > > > > > > Yes, round numbers a million TM meditators taught in the > > US, > > > > with > > > > > > some tens of thousands of TM teachers taught, some tens of > > > > > thousands > > > > > > people taught the TM0-sidhis; and a few hundreds show up > > when > > > > > > called. > > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/message/104974 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Reconciling the numbers, what would the TMOrg need do, to > > > > > reconcile > > > > > > with its people? It had got pretty ugly in recent years, > > what > > > > > could > > > > > > the elements of a lasting peace and reconciliation for the > > > TMorg > > > > > be > > > > > > with its meditators? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Jai Guru Dev, > > > > > > -Doug in FF > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "jyouells2000" > > > <jyouells@> > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Robert Gimbel" > > > > > <babajii_99@> > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "jyouells2000" > > > > > <jyouells@> > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Sal Sunshine > > > > > > <salsunshine@> > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > But most sidhas here are or were doing other > stuff. > > > And > > > > > > seeing > > > > > > > > as how > > > > > > > > > > someone else just got thrown out for that, how > > likely > > > is > > > > > it > > > > > > that > > > > > > > > they'd > > > > > > > > > > be open to the rest of us? (Not that there'd even > be > > > > that > > > > > > many > > > > > > > > willing > > > > > > > > > > to go.) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sal > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > How likely is it that Maharishi would be open about > > it? > > > > Why > > > > > > even > > > > > > > > > bother to ask? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > JohnY > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Well, you might be surprised by his answer; > > > > > > > > If you never ask, you'll never know... > > > > > > > > The Baghavad Gita states this, in: "Action is always > > > > superior > > > > > to > > > > > > > > inaction", because at least you get an answer... > > > > > > > > Didn't Maharishi hang out with some 'Heavy Dudes', in > > > India? > > > > > > > > Didn't he hang with people like, Tat Wala Baba? > > > > > > > > Would Tat Wala Baba, be allowed in the Dome? > > > > > > > > So, I wouldn't be surprised, if someone would only > ask... > > > > > > > > That has been the problem; there have been such > > > controlling; > > > > > > > > People around Maharishi, that they intimidate; > > > > > > > > Even the asking of a perfectly relevant question: > > > > > > > > Very Sad!!! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The quaility of the current programs speak to both > > > Maharishi's > > > > > and > > > > > > the > > > > > > > TMO's openness. That's why the participation is as it > is. > > > > 27,000 > > > > > > > siddha's ... less than 2000 participating. That's > actually > > > > more > > > > > > than I > > > > > > > expected.... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > JohnY > > .. > .,,FFL > To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
