--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, off_world_beings <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "sparaig" <sparaig@> wrote:
> >
> beyond the event horizon, and if that description is
> > > > > changed them it is nothing more than a glorified neutron
> star.
> > > > >
> > > > > The laws of PHYSICS DO NOT APLLY BEYOND THE EVENT HORIZON.
> > > >
> > > > Actually, classical black hole theory says that the laws of
> > > physics do not apply at the
> > > > singularity at the center of mass. I have never heard a theory
> > > claim that they don't apply
> > > > beyond the event horizon, >>
> > >
> > >
> > > Well now you have:
> > > "According to Roger Penrose's Principle of Cosmic Censorship,
> the
> > > fact that the laws of physics break down inside the event
> horizon
> > > has no impact on the physics outside the black hole "
> > >
> > >
> http://astrosun.tn.cornell.edu/academics/courses/astro201/bh_structur
> > > e.htm
> > >
> >
> >
> > YOu gotta learn to stop selectively reading. Here is what that URL
> actually says. Note that
> > it says explicitly that: "At the center of the black hole lies a
> singularity, that is, a region
> > where the current laws of physics break down because the
> circumstances are so extreme."
>
>
> Sir Roger Penrose is very clear on this.
> "According to Roger Penrose's Principle of Cosmic Censorship, the
> fact that the laws of physics break down inside the event horizon
> has no impact on the physics outside the black hole "
>
They are certain they break down at the event horizon and at the singularity,
but there's
no way to discuss what they are like between the event horizon and the
singularity. Most
just assume that things stay relatively normal for a while. There's no way to
prove it either
way of course.
>
> <that AFTER the Planck era 9for a few nanoseconds, the
> > > laws of PHYSICS DO NOT WORK. The same is true in many
> macroscopic
> > > examples. There is a whole binary star system that has baffled
> > > scientists because it in no way shape or form adheres to the
> known
> > > laws of physics.
> > >
> > Hmmm... Reference?
> >
> > And, it there are myriad books out there about the oddities that
> existed, according to
> > theory, during the first few seconds of Existence. We're not
> talking about that OR about
> > the singularity, but about the conditions inside the event horizon
> and outside the
> > singularity "region."
>
>
> Um, a singularity is a singularity. Beyond the event horizon the
> laws of physics break down
>
> "Mathematically, as we look back in time, we can determine that the
> laws of nature completely break down at 10 to the minus 43rd power
> of a second (Planck time) after the creation event."
>
>
> >
> > You're familiar, of course, with the mathematical truism that if
> the universe is "closed" it is,
> > by definition, a universe-sized black hole, yes?
>
> Um...reference please.
It's a non-sensical definition it turns out. However, the same reasoning that
says it is
nonsensical ends up precluding the existance of black holes in the first place
so...
>
> <<If conditions inside a black hole were
> > automatically different than outside, our physical laws couldn't
> work if the universe was
> > closed.>>
>
> Um...reference please.
>
In a truely closed universe, there are no black holes because that would imply
something
existing outside the boundries of our space-time, which we just said isn't the
case by
calling it closed. It's another one of those odd contradictory things.
>
> You are making the mistake that you think the event horizon is just
> some region of space like any other. There would be an immediate
> change to infinite gravity, and zero time, which even before
> infinity is reached the laws of physics will not work as expected.
> The event horizon is that point at which the physics breaks:
>
As far as I know, no-one claims infinite gravity at the event horizon. Infinite
acceleration
would be required to hover at the event horizon because you have to be moving
at the
speed of light, and the event horizon is a singularity in its own right,
according to the
math, but the gravity isn't infinite there. It's only large enough to require
an escape
velocity greater than c. The singularity found at the event horizon is
apparently only due
to an artifact of the coordinate system used (e.g. there's no unique way to
describe the
lattitude and longitude of the North pole on Earth).
And the odds of the singularity fluctuating outside the event horizon are
probably pretty
slim.
> ""Recall that a black hole has a singularity at its center which is
> cloaked by an event horizon. The radius of the event horizon is the
> Schwarschild radius ===> R(Sch) = 2 G M / c**2 .
> Recall that it is good that the singularity is hidden from our
> Universe by the event horizon as interesting (and odd) things can
> happen near the singularity.
> So now ask the question of what happens if you merge the ideas of QM
> with the ideas of Einstein (GR)? Well, suppose that
> W(Compton) ~ R(Sch)
> so that the uncertainty in the position of the singularity becomes
> comparable to the radius of the event horizon. This will uncloak the
> singularity!! On this scale, the structure of space-time becomes
> poorly defined and general relativity (as formulated) must break
> down.
> Planck Scales
> This breakdown occurs for masses known as the Planck mass which is
> defined as
>
> Planck mass = M(P) = sqrt[hc/(2G)] ~ 5.5 x 10**(-5) grams
>
> For reference purposes: m(proton) = 1.7 x 10**(-24) grams and m
> (electron) = 9.1 x 10**(-28) grams
>
> The W(Compton) and R(Sch) which correspond to the Planck mass is
>
> W(Compton) = h/mc = R(Sch) = 2GM/c**2 = 4 x 10**(-33) cm"""
>
> http://zebu.uoregon.edu/~imamura/209/apr5/planck.html
>
>
> Now, I have given half a dozen references for my points. You have
> given none. Lets see you back up your sentences now with references.
>
> OffWorld
>
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