On Jun 12, 2007, at 8:44 AM, authfriend wrote:
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> No surprises here, but good to see in print as the lies of Mahesh
> unravel once again.
And which lies would those be, Vaj?
The ones exposed here (sorry, accidentally responded to the wrong
email!):
Note: I am forwarding a response from Swami G to the last post. There
is a mixture of comments from me and also the poster. Me = T ( short
for Tanmay which is my spirital name given at diksha), *= the poster,
and G = Swami G:
T: Coming from my Guru, it was said there is a tradition where a Guru
was
appointed Guru by their Guru. Furthermore, Maharishi did not take full
Sanyas vows, or full vows within the tradition of GuruDev. Maybe he
was a secretary? It is not normal for a Guru to entrust the innermost
knowledge to a secretary.
* Well here one must say, that neither you nor your Guru are fully
knowledgeable about this tradition. See, its very simple to take one
tradition, where one comes from, and then project on another
tradition, how things ought to be. And its os nice to have email,
yahoo messanger and internet at ones disposal, and using it for
instruction (some more traditioanlly minded people wouldn't do). But
then why doesn't your Guru look up a simple article about the Dasanami
Sampradaya on Wikipedia, and she would know, that in the Saraswati
order only Brahmins can be made Sanyasis?
G Look i KNOW this type of tradition, i am INITIATED into this type of
tradition -
ok you have read about it . The brother sister ones to here are
Bharati/Giri/Puri
and although i am not within the Saraswati Akh??as have spent time with
Sadhus that are - and trust me in this we have the same basic
practices and
knowledge. All 10 come down from Shakaracharya - All 10 are basically
Shavite. As far as Jyotimath is concerned *Giri* is the name associated
with this Math - Traditionally the Saraswatis are from the south. So
do i
need to read up to find out about this lineage - i Live this lineage.
* This would resolve her argument.
G there is no argument - i am commenting from Living within the
Tradition of being a fully initiated Renunicate that has lived not only
here but also within this sect in india. ----
* That MMY was GD's secretary, doesn't mean he was just
employed vs being a student.
G he was a Brahachari - it is known absolutely that he was not
a fully initiated Swami. Undoubtedly he was a student there are many
such nowadays - brahmachari's that are in the process of learning
About the tradition before being formally inducted into it. This is a
common practice.
* Anyone can see on the youtube video that he was speaking in
front of GD, he is shown on photos of showing the
first president of india around in the Ashram - so don't tell me he
didn't have the trust of GD. I am not saying Swami G is totally wrong,
but I do see that she takes her own path as sort of absolute.
G My path IS the same tradition as the one he is supposed to be
speaking from. -------- this is what you don't understand. He may
have been showing the first president around the Ashram but
this proves absolutely nothing. The problem is you have only
read about the traditions and haven't actually lived within them.
T: My Guru said that in her case, there is one
being groomed now for this position, but this is one that has taken
sanyas and it simply is a flow that this person is selected. My Gurus
general comments are this is how a Guru is appointed, not by wanting
to be Guru or declaring ones self to be one.
* Traditionally this is the case.
G yes And ? there are no but's - this is the way it has been and
continues to remain.
* But look at the controversies in many traditions, Hindu and
Buddhist - very often the succession is not clear.
G look succession was not clear when it came to Guru Dev. That
Math had no heir for over 100 Years. - Guru Dev was choosen and
approved by the other Shankaracharya's. That is true.
But there is NO way - not ANYWHERE - that a Shankaracharya
is going to appoint a brahmachari that is not even a full swami as
the one to carry on as a Guru. ------ he may give him blessings but
he most assuredly will not appoint him to buck the whole of the
tradition. And what you are putting forth would be exactly that.
* There maybe contradiory statements of the Guru, like in the
case of Muktananda,
G Muktananda was also not held up or appointed. i have this
on full reliability with one that was With Nithyananda at his
passing. Nithyananda left his body by will - and was quite
clear as to why. This is another matter though one that i
will not get into at this point in time.
* or simply missing public instructions, or the
tradition has a certain restrictive format, like in the case of GD.
G i know what the restrictions are within this tradition. i also know
what mantras are given - i know the in's and outs of this tradition
as far as what the Dasnami traditions do and don't do. --- did you
know that we have a secret language that one initiate Sadhu speaks
to another ? This way we can distinguish who is a Sadhu versus
who has adopted the clothing. There are other secret practices
which are clearly known to true intiated which general public
has no knowledge of. And i am not within liberty to speak of them
openly as this would be a violation of this tradition.
there is no way a full initiate would be wearing white - and while
he may claim Guru Dev as his Guru, like stated before there is
no way a Full initiate and most certainly a Shakaracharya that
holds the rules of the order intact is going to appoint a
half initiate as a guru.
* Therefor I think your Gurus assesment is somewhat restrictive.
G you may think what you want - you may read what you want.
But UNTIL you actually are initiated into one of the 10 Dasanimi
Orders and actually live in india within that tradition there is no
way you can determine fact from made up press. And there is a LOT
of Made Up Press with Mahesh Yogi. Notice it is not Swami
Mahesh-Saraswati
Nor is it Mahesh-Giri , nor Mahesh-Bharati etc. He may claim to be a
part
of these traditions but no way is he initiated into it. And once again
let
it be reminded that the Math in the North is that of Giri. He most
certainly
could have become an full initiate. -
* I also agree lagely with the critics of MMY's public antics, with
the critics
of many that the focus of the movement shifted to all these side
issues, etc
G so you can see part of it - Do you REALLY think that ANY Sampradya
would stand behind any of this ? Does it shed a good light on the
Tradition ?
T: My Guru started a TM yahoo discussion group, there are already some
posts up about this subject:
