On Jul 25, 2007, at 5:20 PM, TurquoiseB wrote:
> > I'm just sayin' that there is a big "red flag" > > raised for me when someone believes one of their > > "stories" so completely > > And Jim was just sayin' that the nature of > enlightenment is such that it falls outside the > category of "stories," something of which you're > apparently not aware. And I *understand* that some people believe this. I do not. Neither do spiritual traditions such as the Tibetan one Vaj mentioned. I am a strong believer in enlightenment, and I believe that the experience of it should be under exactly the same scrutiny and subject to the same analysis as any other experience, if not more. It isn't "exempt."
It's interesting Herbert Benson, before he went on to verify the tummo siddhi in a number of advanced yogis (and also the remarkable side-effect that their metabolic rate greatly dropped) he tested a bunch of westerners who all claimed to have the same level of tummo (heat yoga) realization. It turned out although all of them were convinced they had achieved this realization, in fact none of them had.
So in some cases sceince can be used to verify certain claims of realization. It just happened in this case that their was a by- product that was easily measurable (heat).
I believe at least one of the people claiming enlightenment in FF was tested by the TMO, but still, no cigar.
Nonetheless they were obviously convinced they were!
