--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "do.rflex" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "jim_flanegin" <jflanegi@> wrote: > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "boo_lives" <boo_lives@> > > wrote: > > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "jim_flanegin" <jflanegi@> > > wrote: > > > > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter <drpetersutphen@> > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- boo_lives <boo_lives@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, cardemaister > > > > > > <no_reply@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > IMO, he looks a bit sad or worried in most > > > > > > > of these pics: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.paulmason.info/gurudev/photogallery.htm > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I guess he knew what the world would have to go > > > > > > through > > > > > > > during the 20th century. > > > > > > > > > > > > > Or how MMY would start selling supernormal powers > > > > > > and Enlightenment at > > > > > > $1 million a pop to spiritual gullible americans, > > > > > > all proceeds going > > > > > > into an offshore account in the jersey islands named > > > > > > Brahmananda > > > > > > Saraswati Trust, which finances real estate > > > > > > development and lavish > > > > > > lifestyles of the varma/srivasta clans. > > > > > > > > > > Slam dunk!! > > > > > > > > > I guess I never figured that Guru Dev is that weak, blind and > > stupid- > > > > - > > > > > > > > That a saint who could make himself dynamically known to many > > after > > > > his bodily death, who apparently organized a massive yagya to > > end > > > > world war two, who manifested money out of the ether, who lived > > > > unaided in the forest from the age of nine, would be incapable > > of > > > > using his highly developed intuition to pick a worthy successor > > to > > > > spread his message, one who he even provided with the mantras > > useful > > > > for the world, on his deathbed? > > > > > > > > Of all those who he could of chosen, at his pinnacle of wisdom > > and > > > > popularity as Shankaracharya of the North, of all of those > > attracted > > > > to him, he choses someone who is greatly flawed, to destroy and > > cast > > > > doubt on all of his work? > > > > > > > > Sorry, but I ain't buyin' it.:-) > > > > > > > There is no evidence that GD choose MMY to be his successor - tmers > > > believe that based on what MMY has said not anything objective. > > > There's a huge decades long controversy over who GD's official > > jyotir > > > math successor was, where there is some record, and there's no > > record > > > at all regarding MMY. GD did not give MMY tm mantras - as has been > > > documented MMY started teaching TM in india with the mantra raam > > given > > > to everyone, later changed to bij mantras, and changed the criteria > > > for selecting bij mantras at least a couple times. The deathbed > > story > > > is believed by tmers and makes a great dramatic story. You can > > > believe whatever you want, as long as you understand you're using > > your > > > own spiritual movement's beliefs/stories/myths to support your > > > argument, which doesn't have much weight on those who aren't a > > part of > > > it. Every guru with a marketing orientation has a story about how > > he > > > is the official successor/reincarnation of/avatar of/ etc. of some > > > prior esteemed guru. Anti-tm people from GD's ashram have their > > own > > > stories about how GD warned the ashram about MMY's ambition and to > > > keep him on the business side and out of the teaching side of the > > > ashram, and how MMY fooled with the will, etc. That's their > > stories - > > > they have the same objective weight as TM TB stories. > > > > > > MMY certainly has been successful in drawing in people to > > meditation > > > and in raising money. Still a pretty large group in ffld doing his > > > thing. I don't know if that says anything about GD or what he > > would > > > think about it. > > > > > > I don't know much about GD from non TM sources. He appears to have > > > practiced a tradition called shri vidya. My personal opinion is > > that > > > GD's true lineage is being upheld by someone trained and selected > > > while GD was in the forest, not while in his public formal role as > > a > > > religious ashram leader. > > > > > I have heard all of what you are saying also. I do believe that Guru > > Dev's intent was to radically shake up our world through > > rejuvination of the timeless knowledge of enlightenment, and to make > > this as widely available as possible. > > > > One thing that is available to enlightened individuals like Guru Dev > > is to be able to carefully steer the trends of time in their favor. > > It is a natural and effortless part of enlightenment; comes with the > > territory. > > > > What you are accepting instead, is that Guru Dev is incapable of > > this, that instead he chooses to be duped by someone with base > > motives. Which if you know anything at all about Guru Dev, first > > hand, is utterly incomprehensible. The entire manifest universe > > literally resides in each and every cell of his body, he is absolute > > purity made manifest, and you are saying he is willing to be duped, > > and or usurped by a wolf in sheep's clothing, or at the least > > allowed such a person into his intimate presence, for years? That is > > an absurdity beyond comprehension. > > > > Whether some of the TM lore is in question or not, my ongoing > > relationship with Guru Dev makes your collection of doubts regarding > > Maharishi highly suspect-- almost like finding out that your father > > has had a secret life as a bank robber, only even less likely. > > > > Additionally, of course all beliefs are based on experience. Because > > Maharishi's techniques and knowledge have brought me permanent, ever > > growing and solid enlightenment, Brahman, there is no reason to > > engage in these endless debates or doubts about him and Guru Dev, > > and what their relationship is or isn't. > > > > There is no greater evidence than experience, in my opinion.:-) > > > There is also such a thing as self-delusion.
Very much so-- hence my repeated remark about the self, mine and yours, and anyone else's, being essentially a fool.:-) > > What you've done here, in my view, is express predictable assumptive > apologia for Maharishi the TMO. And, I personally don't believe at all > that you are in Brahman Consciousness. I'm certainly not impressed. Are you supposed to be impressed? I am certainly not out to impress anyone...Hopefully I appear as normal and with as functional a personality as anyone else. As anyone established in Brahman typically would.:-) > I remember a story I heard or read years ago about an earnest disciple > who had a master who was notably disreputable. He was preaching his > master's 'wisdom' to a prospective disciple who had been listening to > a different master. The earnest disciple claimed that in > 'enlightenment' the master is not bound by any standards of behavior. > The prospective disciple went back to his master and asked him about > this. The master said that any master who doesn't practise goodness in > his own life isn't really enlightened and if he claims that he is, > then I spit on his enlightenment. > Yes, unless there was some experience on which I could base a belief and it was dynamically refreshed, at will, I wouldn't personally believe in anyone's enlightenment, including my own.:-)
