Hi Klaus,
For me ms_envelope and rms_envelope functions are not working properly. I’ve
done some test in my Mac Pro with High Sierra, porting without barograph to Max
or Supercollider and I get the strange gate behaviour in low levels.
My workaround at the moment is using ba.slidingMeanp instead of ms_envelope,
but it’s 2x cpu intense, so I guess Dario solution of 1plp filter would be the
best for the mean square stage.
>> lp1p(cf, x) = fi.pole(b, x * (1 - b))
>> with {
>> b = exp(-2 * ma.PI * cf / ma.SR);
>> };
>> zi_lp(x) = lp1p(1 / Tg, x * x);
Cheers,
Juan Carlos
// Mono Momentary LUFS meter without gate of Julius, using slidingMeanp instead
of ms_envelope
import("stdfaust.lib");
A48kHz = ( /* 1.0, */ -1.99004745483398, 0.99007225036621);
B48kHz = (1.0, -2.0, 1.0);
highpass48kHz = fi.iir(B48kHz,A48kHz);
highpass = fi.highpass(2, 40);
boostDB = 4;
boostFreqHz = 1430;
highshelf = fi.high_shelf(boostDB, boostFreqHz);
kfilter = highshelf : highpass;
MAXN = 262144;
Tg = 0.4;
Lk = kfilter <: _*_ : ba.slidingMeanp(Tg*ma.SR, MAXN) : ba.linear2db : *(0.5);
process = _ <: attach(_, Lk : hbargraph("[1]Momentary LUFS",-70,0));
//
> El 9 jul 2021, a las 16:55, Klaus Scheuermann <kla...@posteo.de> escribió:
>
> Ha, so I was really on to something ;)
>
> Is the bug in the meter or in the envelope?
> Would you have a workaround for me to get on with the lufs analyser?
>
> Thanks, Klaus
>
> On 08.07.21 19:19, Julius Smith wrote:
>> Hi Dario,
>>
>> The problem seems to be architecture-dependent. I am on a Mac (latest
>> non-beta software) using faust2caqt. What are you using?
>>
>> I do not see the "strange behavior" you describe.
>>
>> Your test looks good for me in faust2octave, with gain set to 0.01 (-40
>> dB, which triggers the display bug on my system). In
>> Octave, faustout(end,:) shows
>>
>> -44.744 -44.968 -44.708
>>
>> which at first glance seems close enough for noise input and slightly
>> different averaging windows. Changing the signal to a constant 0.01, I get
>>
>> -39.994 -40.225 -40.000
>>
>> which is not too bad, but which should probably be sharpened up. The
>> third value (zi_lp) is right on, of course.
>>
>> gain = 0.01; // hslider("Gain [unit:dB]",-70,-70,0,0.1) : ba.db2linear;
>> sig = gain; //sig = no.noise * gain;
>>
>> On Thu, Jul 8, 2021 at 3:53 AM Dario Sanfilippo
>> <sanfilippo.da...@gmail.com <mailto:sanfilippo.da...@gmail.com>> wrote:
>>
>> Hi, Julius.
>>
>> I must be missing something, but I couldn't see the behaviour that
>> you described, that is, the gating behaviour happening only for the
>> display and not for the output.
>>
>> If a removethe hbargraphaltogether, I can still see the strange
>> behaviour. Just so we're all on the same page, the strange behaviour
>> we're referring to is the fact that, after going back to low input
>> gains, the displayed levels are -inf instead of some low,
>> quantifiable ones, right?
>>
>> Using a leaky integrator makes the calculations rather inaccurate.
>> I'd say that, if one needs to use single-precision, averaging with a
>> one-pole lowpass would be best:
>>
>> import("stdfaust.lib");
>> zi = an.ms_envelope_rect(Tg);
>> slidingSum(n) = fi.pole(.999999) <: _, _@int(max(0,n)) :> -;
>> slidingMean(n) = slidingSum(n)/rint(n);
>> zi_leaky(x) = slidingMean(Tg*ma.SR, x * x);
>> lp1p(cf, x) = fi.pole(b, x * (1 - b))
>> with {
>> b = exp(-2 * ma.PI * cf / ma.SR);
>> };
>> zi_lp(x) = lp1p(1 / Tg, x * x);
>> Tg = 0.4;
>> sig = no.noise * gain;
>> gain = hslider("Gain [unit:dB]",-70,-70,0,0.1) : ba.db2linear;
>> level = ba.linear2db : *(0.5);
>> process = sig <: level(zi) , level(zi_leaky) , level(zi_lp);
>>
>> Ciao,
>> Dr Dario Sanfilippo
>> http://dariosanfilippo.com <http://dariosanfilippo.com>
>>
>>
>> On Thu, 8 Jul 2021 at 00:39, Julius Smith <julius.sm...@gmail.com
>> <mailto:julius.sm...@gmail.com>> wrote:
>>
>>> I think that the problem is in an.ms_envelope_rect,
>> particularly the fact that it has a non-leaky integrator. I
>> assume that when large values recirculate in the integrator, the
>> smaller ones, after pushing the gain down, are truncated to 0
>> due to single-precision. As a matter of fact, compiling the code
>> in double precision looks fine here.
>>
>> I just took a look and see that it's essentially based on + ~ _
>> : (_ - @(rectWindowLenthSamples))
>> This will indeed suffer from a growing roundoff error variance
>> over time (typically linear growth).
>> However, I do not see any noticeable effects of this in my
>> testing thus far.
>> To address this properly, we should be using TIIR filtering
>> principles ("Truncated IIR"), in which two such units pingpong
>> and alternately reset.
>> Alternatively, a small exponential decay can be added: + ~
>> *(0.999999) ... etc.
>>
>> - Julius
>>
>> On Wed, Jul 7, 2021 at 12:32 PM Dario Sanfilippo
>> <sanfilippo.da...@gmail.com <mailto:sanfilippo.da...@gmail.com>>
>> wrote:
>>
>> I think that the problem is in an.ms_envelope_rect,
>> particularly the fact that it has a non-leaky integrator. I
>> assume that when large values recirculate in the integrator,
>> the smaller ones, after pushing the gain down, are truncated
>> to 0 due to single-precision. As a matter of fact, compiling
>> the code in double precision looks fine here.
>>
>> Ciao,
>> Dr Dario Sanfilippo
>> http://dariosanfilippo.com <http://dariosanfilippo.com>
>>
>>
>> On Wed, 7 Jul 2021 at 19:25, Stéphane Letz <l...@grame.fr
>> <mailto:l...@grame.fr>> wrote:
>>
>> « hargraph seems to have some kind of a gate in it that
>> kicks in around -35 dB. » humm…. hargraph/vbargrah only
>> keep the last value of their written FAUSTFLOAT* zone,
>> so once per block, without any processing of course…
>>
>> Have you looked at the produce C++ code?
>>
>> Stéphane
>>
>>> Le 7 juil. 2021 à 18:31, Julius Smith
>> <julius.sm...@gmail.com <mailto:julius.sm...@gmail.com>>
>> a écrit :
>>>
>>> That is strange - hbargraph seems to have some kind of
>> a gate in it that kicks in around -35 dB.
>>>
>>> In this modified version, you can hear that the sound
>> is ok:
>>>
>>> import("stdfaust.lib");
>>> Tg = 0.4;
>>> zi = an.ms_envelope_rect(Tg);
>>> gain = hslider("Gain [unit:dB]",-10,-70,0,0.1) :
>> ba.db2linear;
>>> sig = no.noise * gain;
>>> process = attach(sig, (sig : zi : ba.linear2db :
>> *(0.5) : hbargraph("test",-70,0)));
>>>
>>> On Wed, Jul 7, 2021 at 12:59 AM Klaus Scheuermann
>> <kla...@posteo.de <mailto:kla...@posteo.de>> wrote:
>>> Hi all,
>>> I did some testing and
>>>
>>> an.ms_envelope_rect()
>>>
>>> seems to show some strange behaviour (at least to me).
>> Here is a video
>>> of the test:
>>> https://cloud.4ohm.de/s/64caEPBqxXeRMt5
>> <https://cloud.4ohm.de/s/64caEPBqxXeRMt5>
>>>
>>> The audio is white noise and the testing code is:
>>>
>>> import("stdfaust.lib");
>>> Tg = 0.4;
>>> zi = an.ms_envelope_rect(Tg);
>>> process = _ : zi : ba.linear2db : hbargraph("test",-95,0);
>>>
>>> Could you please verify?
>>>
>>> Thanks, Klaus
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 05.07.21 20:16, Julius Smith wrote:
>>>> Hmmm, '!' means "block the signal", but attach
>> should save the bargraph
>>>> from being optimized away as a result. Maybe I
>> misremembered the
>>>> argument order to attach? While it's very simple in
>> concept, it can be
>>>> confusing in practice.
>>>>
>>>> I chose not to have a gate at all, but you can grab
>> one from
>>>> misceffects.lib if you like. Low volume should not
>> give -infinity,
>>>> that's a bug, but zero should, and zero should
>> become MIN as I mentioned
>>>> so -infinity should never happen.
>>>>
>>>> Cheers,
>>>> Julius
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Mon, Jul 5, 2021 at 10:39 AM Klaus Scheuermann
>> <kla...@posteo.de <mailto:kla...@posteo.de>
>>>> <mailto:kla...@posteo.de <mailto:kla...@posteo.de>>>
>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Cheers Julius,
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> At least I understood the 'attach' primitive now
>> ;) Thanks.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> This does not show any meter here...
>>>> process(x,y) = x,y <: (_,_), attach(x, (Lk2 :
>> vbargraph("LUFS",-90,0)))
>>>> : _,_,!;
>>>>
>>>> But this does for some reason (although the
>> output is 3-channel then):
>>>> process(x,y) = x,y <: (_,_), attach(x, (Lk2 :
>> vbargraph("LUFS",-90,0)))
>>>> : _,_,_;
>>>>
>>>> What does the '!' do?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I still don't quite get the gating topic. In my
>> understanding, the meter
>>>> should hold the current value if the input
>> signal drops below a
>>>> threshold. In your version, the meter drops to
>> -infinity when very low
>>>> volume content is played.
>>>>
>>>> Which part of your code does the gating?
>>>>
>>>> Many thanks,
>>>> Klaus
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 05.07.21 18:06, Julius Smith wrote:
>>>> > Hi Klaus,
>>>> >
>>>> > Yes, I agree the filters are close enough. I
>> bet that the shelf is
>>>> > exactly correct if we determined the exact
>> transition frequency, and
>>>> > that the Butterworth highpass is close enough
>> to the
>>>> Bessel-or-whatever
>>>> > that is inexplicably not specified as a filter
>> type, leaving it
>>>> > sample-rate dependent. I would bet large odds
>> that the differences
>>>> > cannot be reliably detected in listening tests.
>>>> >
>>>> > Yes, I just looked again, and there are
>> "gating blocks" defined,
>>>> each Tg
>>>> > = 0.4 sec long, so that only ungated blocks
>> are averaged to form a
>>>> > longer term level-estimate. What I wrote
>> gives a "sliding gating
>>>> > block", which can be lowpass filtered further,
>> and/or gated, etc.
>>>> > Instead of a gate, I would simply replace 0 by
>> ma.EPSILON so that the
>>>> > log always works (good for avoiding denormals
>> as well).
>>>> >
>>>> > I believe stereo is supposed to be handled
>> like this:
>>>> >
>>>> > Lk2 = _,0,_,0,0 : Lk5;
>>>> > process(x,y) = Lk2(x,y);
>>>> >
>>>> > or
>>>> >
>>>> > Lk2 = Lk(0),Lk(2) :> 10 * log10 : -(0.691);
>>>> >
>>>> > but since the center channel is processed
>> identically to left
>>>> and right,
>>>> > your solution also works.
>>>> >
>>>> > Bypassing is normal Faust, e.g.,
>>>> >
>>>> > process(x,y) = x,y <: (_,_), attach(x, (Lk2 :
>>>> vbargraph("LUFS",-90,0)))
>>>> > : _,_,!;
>>>> >
>>>> > Cheers,
>>>> > Julius
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> > On Mon, Jul 5, 2021 at 1:56 AM Klaus
>> Scheuermann <kla...@posteo.de <mailto:kla...@posteo.de>
>>>> <mailto:kla...@posteo.de <mailto:kla...@posteo.de>>
>>>> > <mailto:kla...@posteo.de
>> <mailto:kla...@posteo.de> <mailto:kla...@posteo.de
>> <mailto:kla...@posteo.de>>>> wrote:
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> > > I can never resist these things! Faust
>> makes it too
>>>> enjoyable :-)
>>>> >
>>>> > Glad you can't ;)
>>>> >
>>>> > I understood you approximate the filters
>> with standard faust
>>>> filters.
>>>> > That is probably close enough for me :)
>>>> >
>>>> > I also get the part with the sliding
>> window envelope. If I
>>>> wanted to
>>>> > make the meter follow slowlier, I would
>> just widen the window
>>>> with Tg.
>>>> >
>>>> > The 'gating' part I don't understand for
>> lack of mathematical
>>>> knowledge,
>>>> > but I suppose it is meant differently.
>> When the input signal
>>>> falls below
>>>> > the gate threshold, the meter should stay
>> at the current
>>>> value, not drop
>>>> > to -infinity, right? This is so 'silent'
>> parts are not taken into
>>>> > account.
>>>> >
>>>> > If I wanted to make a stereo version it
>> would be something like
>>>> > this, right?
>>>> >
>>>> > Lk2 = par(i,2, Lk(i)) :> 10 * log10 :
>> -(0.691);
>>>> > process = _,_ : Lk2 : vbargraph("LUFS",-90,0);
>>>> >
>>>> > Probably very easy, but how do I attach
>> this to a stereo
>>>> signal (passing
>>>> > through the stereo signal)?
>>>> >
>>>> > Thanks again!
>>>> > Klaus
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> > >
>>>> > > I made a pass, but there is a small
>> scaling error. I think
>>>> it can be
>>>> > > fixed by reducing boostFreqHz until the
>> sine_test is nailed.
>>>> > > The highpass is close (and not a source
>> of the scale error),
>>>> but I'm
>>>> > > using Butterworth instead of whatever
>> they used.
>>>> > > I glossed over the discussion of
>> "gating" in the spec, and
>>>> may have
>>>> > > missed something important there, but
>>>> > > I simply tried to make a sliding
>> rectangular window, instead
>>>> of 75%
>>>> > > overlap, etc.
>>>> > >
>>>> > > If useful, let me know and I'll propose
>> it for analyzers.lib!
>>>> > >
>>>> > > Cheers,
>>>> > > Julius
>>>> > >
>>>> > > import("stdfaust.lib");
>>>> > >
>>>> > > // Highpass:
>>>> > > // At 48 kHz, this is the right highpass
>> filter (maybe a
>>>> Bessel or
>>>> > > Thiran filter?):
>>>> > > A48kHz = ( /* 1.0, */ -1.99004745483398,
>> 0.99007225036621);
>>>> > > B48kHz = (1.0, -2.0, 1.0);
>>>> > > highpass48kHz = fi.iir(B48kHz,A48kHz);
>>>> > > highpass = fi.highpass(2, 40); //
>> Butterworth highpass:
>>>> roll-off is a
>>>> > > little too sharp
>>>> > >
>>>> > > // High Shelf:
>>>> > > boostDB = 4;
>>>> > > boostFreqHz = 1430; // a little too high
>> - they should give
>>>> us this!
>>>> > > highshelf = fi.high_shelf(boostDB,
>> boostFreqHz); // Looks
>>>> very close,
>>>> > > but 1 kHz gain has to be nailed
>>>> > >
>>>> > > kfilter = highshelf : highpass;
>>>> > >
>>>> > > // Power sum:
>>>> > > Tg = 0.4; // spec calls for 75% overlap
>> of successive
>>>> rectangular
>>>> > > windows - we're overlapping MUCH more
>> (sliding window)
>>>> > > zi = an.ms_envelope_rect(Tg); // mean
>> square: average power =
>>>> > energy/Tg
>>>> > > = integral of squared signal / Tg
>>>> > >
>>>> > > // Gain vector Gv = (GL,GR,GC,GLs,GRs):
>>>> > > N = 5;
>>>> > > Gv = (1, 1, 1, 1.41, 1.41); // left
>> GL(-30deg), right GR
>>>> (30), center
>>>> > > GC(0), left surround GLs(-110), right
>> surr. GRs(110)
>>>> > > G(i) = *(ba.take(i+1,Gv));
>>>> > > Lk(i) = kfilter : zi : G(i); // one
>> channel, before summing
>>>> and before
>>>> > > taking dB and offsetting
>>>> > > LkDB(i) = Lk(i) : 10 * log10 : -(0.691);
>> // Use this for a mono
>>>> > input signal
>>>> > >
>>>> > > // Five-channel surround input:
>>>> > > Lk5 = par(i,5,Lk(i)) :> 10 * log10 :
>> -(0.691);
>>>> > >
>>>> > > // sine_test = os.oscrs(1000); // should
>> give –3.01 LKFS, with
>>>> > > GL=GR=GC=1 (0dB) and GLs=GRs=1.41 (~1.5 dB)
>>>> > > sine_test = os.osc(1000);
>>>> > >
>>>> > > process = sine_test : LkDB(0); // should
>> read -3.01 LKFS -
>>>> high-shelf
>>>> > > gain at 1 kHz is critical
>>>> > > // process = 0,sine_test,0,0,0 : Lk5; //
>> should read -3.01
>>>> LKFS for
>>>> > > left, center, and right
>>>> > > // Highpass test: process = 1-1' <:
>> highpass, highpass48kHz;
>>>> // fft in
>>>> > > Octave
>>>> > > // High shelf test: process = 1-1' :
>> highshelf; // fft in Octave
>>>> > >
>>>> > > On Sat, Jul 3, 2021 at 1:08 AM Klaus
>> Scheuermann
>>>> <kla...@posteo.de <mailto:kla...@posteo.de>
>> <mailto:kla...@posteo.de <mailto:kla...@posteo.de>>
>>>> > <mailto:kla...@posteo.de
>> <mailto:kla...@posteo.de> <mailto:kla...@posteo.de
>> <mailto:kla...@posteo.de>>>
>>>> > > <mailto:kla...@posteo.de
>> <mailto:kla...@posteo.de> <mailto:kla...@posteo.de
>> <mailto:kla...@posteo.de>>
>>>> <mailto:kla...@posteo.de
>> <mailto:kla...@posteo.de> <mailto:kla...@posteo.de
>> <mailto:kla...@posteo.de>>>>> wrote:
>>>> > >
>>>> > > Hello everyone :)
>>>> > >
>>>> > > Would someone be up for helping me
>> implement an LUFS
>>>> loudness
>>>> > analyser
>>>> > > in faust?
>>>> > >
>>>> > > Or has someone done it already?
>>>> > >
>>>> > > LUFS (aka LKFS) is becoming more and
>> more the standard for
>>>> > loudness
>>>> > > measurement in the audio industry.
>> Youtube, Spotify and
>>>> broadcast
>>>> > > stations use the concept to
>> normalize loudness. A very
>>>> > positive side
>>>> > > effect is, that loudness-wars are
>> basically over.
>>>> > >
>>>> > > I looked into it, but my programming
>> skills clearly
>>>> don't match
>>>> > > the level for implementing this.
>>>> > >
>>>> > > Here is some resource about the topic:
>>>> > >
>>>> > > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LKFS
>> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LKFS>
>>>> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LKFS
>> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LKFS>>
>>>> > <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LKFS
>> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LKFS>
>>>> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LKFS
>> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LKFS>>>
>>>> > <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LKFS
>> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LKFS>
>>>> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LKFS
>> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LKFS>>
>>>> > <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LKFS
>> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LKFS>
>>>> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LKFS
>> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LKFS>>>>
>>>> > >
>>>> > > Specifications (in Annex 1):
>>>> > >
>>>> >
>>>>
>>
>> https://www.itu.int/dms_pubrec/itu-r/rec/bs/R-REC-BS.1770-3-201208-S!!PDF-E.pdf
>>
>> <https://www.itu.int/dms_pubrec/itu-r/rec/bs/R-REC-BS.1770-3-201208-S!!PDF-E.pdf>
>>>>
>>
>> <https://www.itu.int/dms_pubrec/itu-r/rec/bs/R-REC-BS.1770-3-201208-S!!PDF-E.pdf
>>
>> <https://www.itu.int/dms_pubrec/itu-r/rec/bs/R-REC-BS.1770-3-201208-S!!PDF-E.pdf>>
>>>> >
>>>>
>>
>> <https://www.itu.int/dms_pubrec/itu-r/rec/bs/R-REC-BS.1770-3-201208-S!!PDF-E.pdf
>>
>> <https://www.itu.int/dms_pubrec/itu-r/rec/bs/R-REC-BS.1770-3-201208-S!!PDF-E.pdf>
>>>>
>>
>> <https://www.itu.int/dms_pubrec/itu-r/rec/bs/R-REC-BS.1770-3-201208-S!!PDF-E.pdf
>>
>> <https://www.itu.int/dms_pubrec/itu-r/rec/bs/R-REC-BS.1770-3-201208-S!!PDF-E.pdf>>>
>>>> > >
>>>> >
>>>>
>>
>> <https://www.itu.int/dms_pubrec/itu-r/rec/bs/R-REC-BS.1770-3-201208-S!!PDF-E.pdf
>>
>> <https://www.itu.int/dms_pubrec/itu-r/rec/bs/R-REC-BS.1770-3-201208-S!!PDF-E.pdf>
>>>>
>>
>> <https://www.itu.int/dms_pubrec/itu-r/rec/bs/R-REC-BS.1770-3-201208-S!!PDF-E.pdf
>>
>> <https://www.itu.int/dms_pubrec/itu-r/rec/bs/R-REC-BS.1770-3-201208-S!!PDF-E.pdf>>
>>>> >
>>>>
>>
>> <https://www.itu.int/dms_pubrec/itu-r/rec/bs/R-REC-BS.1770-3-201208-S!!PDF-E.pdf
>>
>> <https://www.itu.int/dms_pubrec/itu-r/rec/bs/R-REC-BS.1770-3-201208-S!!PDF-E.pdf>
>>>>
>>
>> <https://www.itu.int/dms_pubrec/itu-r/rec/bs/R-REC-BS.1770-3-201208-S!!PDF-E.pdf
>>
>> <https://www.itu.int/dms_pubrec/itu-r/rec/bs/R-REC-BS.1770-3-201208-S!!PDF-E.pdf>>>>
>>>> > >
>>>> > > An implementation by 'klangfreund'
>> in JUCE / C:
>>>> > >
>> https://github.com/klangfreund/LUFSMeter
>> <https://github.com/klangfreund/LUFSMeter>
>>>> <https://github.com/klangfreund/LUFSMeter
>> <https://github.com/klangfreund/LUFSMeter>>
>>>> > <https://github.com/klangfreund/LUFSMeter
>> <https://github.com/klangfreund/LUFSMeter>
>>>> <https://github.com/klangfreund/LUFSMeter
>> <https://github.com/klangfreund/LUFSMeter>>>
>>>> > >
>> <https://github.com/klangfreund/LUFSMeter
>> <https://github.com/klangfreund/LUFSMeter>
>>>> <https://github.com/klangfreund/LUFSMeter
>> <https://github.com/klangfreund/LUFSMeter>>
>>>> > <https://github.com/klangfreund/LUFSMeter
>> <https://github.com/klangfreund/LUFSMeter>
>>>> <https://github.com/klangfreund/LUFSMeter
>> <https://github.com/klangfreund/LUFSMeter>>>>
>>>> > >
>>>> > > There is also a free LUFS Meter in
>> JS / Reaper by
>>>> Geraint Luff.
>>>> > > (The code can be seen in reaper, but
>> I don't know if I
>>>> should
>>>> > paste it
>>>> > > here.)
>>>> > >
>>>> > > Please let me know if you are up for it!
>>>> > >
>>>> > > Take care,
>>>> > > Klaus
>>>> > >
>>>> > >
>>>> > >
>> _______________________________________________
>>>> > > Faudiostream-users mailing list
>>>> > >
>> Faudiostream-users@lists.sourceforge.net
>> <mailto:Faudiostream-users@lists.sourceforge.net>
>>>> <mailto:Faudiostream-users@lists.sourceforge.net
>> <mailto:Faudiostream-users@lists.sourceforge.net>>
>>>> >
>> <mailto:Faudiostream-users@lists.sourceforge.net
>> <mailto:Faudiostream-users@lists.sourceforge.net>
>>>> <mailto:Faudiostream-users@lists.sourceforge.net
>> <mailto:Faudiostream-users@lists.sourceforge.net>>>
>>>> > >
>> <mailto:Faudiostream-users@lists.sourceforge.net
>> <mailto:Faudiostream-users@lists.sourceforge.net>
>>>> <mailto:Faudiostream-users@lists.sourceforge.net
>> <mailto:Faudiostream-users@lists.sourceforge.net>>
>>>> >
>> <mailto:Faudiostream-users@lists.sourceforge.net
>> <mailto:Faudiostream-users@lists.sourceforge.net>
>>>> <mailto:Faudiostream-users@lists.sourceforge.net
>> <mailto:Faudiostream-users@lists.sourceforge.net>>>>
>>>> > >
>>>> >
>>>>
>>
>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/faudiostream-users
>>
>> <https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/faudiostream-users>
>>>>
>>
>> <https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/faudiostream-users
>>
>> <https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/faudiostream-users>>
>>>> >
>>>>
>>
>> <https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/faudiostream-users
>>
>> <https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/faudiostream-users>
>>>>
>>
>> <https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/faudiostream-users
>>
>> <https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/faudiostream-users>>>
>>>> > >
>>>> >
>>>>
>>
>> <https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/faudiostream-users
>>
>> <https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/faudiostream-users>
>>>>
>>
>> <https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/faudiostream-users
>>
>> <https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/faudiostream-users>>
>>>> >
>>>>
>>
>> <https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/faudiostream-users
>>
>> <https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/faudiostream-users>
>>>>
>>
>> <https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/faudiostream-users
>>
>> <https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/faudiostream-users>>>>
>>>> > >
>>>> > >
>>>> > >
>>>> > > --
>>>> > > "Anybody who knows all about nothing
>> knows everything" --
>>>> Leonard
>>>> > Susskind
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> > --
>>>> > "Anybody who knows all about nothing knows
>> everything" -- Leonard
>>>> Susskind
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> "Anybody who knows all about nothing knows
>> everything" -- Leonard Susskind
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> "Anybody who knows all about nothing knows everything"
>> -- Leonard Susskind
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Faudiostream-users mailing list
>>> Faudiostream-users@lists.sourceforge.net
>> <mailto:Faudiostream-users@lists.sourceforge.net>
>>>
>>
>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/faudiostream-users
>>
>> <https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/faudiostream-users>
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Faudiostream-users mailing list
>> Faudiostream-users@lists.sourceforge.net
>> <mailto:Faudiostream-users@lists.sourceforge.net>
>>
>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/faudiostream-users
>>
>> <https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/faudiostream-users>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> "Anybody who knows all about nothing knows everything" --
>> Leonard Susskind
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> "Anybody who knows all about nothing knows everything" -- Leonard Susskind
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Faudiostream-users mailing list
>> Faudiostream-users@lists.sourceforge.net
>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/faudiostream-users
>>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Faudiostream-users mailing list
> Faudiostream-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/faudiostream-users
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