RE: OT:Tonya - killing ferals

[Hideyo Yamamoto]

I am sorry, but I still can’t agree with that – There was a situation where we had a total of over 50 feral cats who were fed by someone – and the person died of cancer a few months ago, but the rescue group I work with, no one had any intention of trapping and killing them including myself because of it – as we knew how much these cats lives meant to the person who died of cancer and she had contributed so much to lives of all the feral cats in the city – so what we did was, we trapped all of them (except a few that we couldn’t due to some stupid mistakes we made) – and there were all taken by someone, and if not, have been relocated to some place where someone else could take care of them – there is always risk of re-locating feral and I don’t usually go for it – but when there is no alternatives, re-locating them is a better choice than killing them.  I feel that we humans always have a choice to make, whether we are willing to make it or not – we just simply do have a choice regardless of situations. I just simply can’t agree to the belief that we have no choice, but to kill them – that’s an arrogant thinking of our part – why not re-locate them and give them another chance if they are healthy – just the thought breaks my heart – and sometime I am sad that I am one of them –   -----Original Message----- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of catatonya Sent: Monday, March 14, 2005 4:10 PM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: OT:Tonya - killing ferals   I just think we're talking about different situations.  My Mamma Kitty I brought home from North Carolina last winter was living with a feral colony.  The colony lives in the woods behind my sister's neighborhood.  She feeds them, and we try to trap and spay what we can. In the meantime we stay worried sick about them being killed by hawks and coyotes, dogs, etc.... But we don't just trap them and euthanize them.  We let them live out their lives.   Other instances are for example 45 cats found living in an abandoned school bus where people had been feeding them and moved away.  Property being cleared for new homes.  We have a few days to relocate 45 ferals? Not likely.  A man dies leaving (we counted over 80) sick, inbred, injured cats on his property.  Family wants them gone yesterday, or they call animal control to trap and euthanize.  Where do we relocate that many sick, injured cats?  Even the well ones.  It's very hard to relocate a colony IF on the unlikely chance someone says they'll take them if we spay/neuter them?   A restaurant calls with 25 or so ferals living in the dumpsters behind the shopping center.  We can get them out within a week or they will poison them.........   We do what we can do.  Sometimes trapping and euthanizing is the only option we have.  Currently our humane society just goes into Mobile Home parks and spays/neuters everything they can find.  Whether they have homes or not, they leave them to live out their lives.  We also have spay days where people who have ferals on their property can use our traps and bring them to us to spay/neuter/release.  There are just cases, though, where that won't work.   I don't think anyone enjoys 'playing God' with the lives of these animals.  But we are basically put in that position and just have to do the best we can.  I'm sure all of my cats would be 'happier' if I let them go outside.  But I don't, because I don't think that's best for them.  That's playing "God" as well.  I'm sure they'd rather have Fancy Feast every day too, but they don't get it.  : )  I'm sure they'd rather not go to the vet, etc.... etc...   With children, of course, there is no option to 'kill' them because they are abused, sick, or whatever.  I wish that were the case for animals as well.  But it's not.  Every time we get an email on the list from someone trying to place a sick cat or it will be euthanized are we all guilty because we don't take it?  Aren't each of us making a decision that the cat will have to die because we can't take it?   It would be nice to solve all the problems, but I don't have the answers either.   t Nina <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Tonya, What you went through with those dogs is heart wrenching! How awful for you and the dogs. I should have known there was a story like that behind your comments. >> My opinion is sometimes trapping and euthanizing is the best we can do for them. And these are domestic animals, whether they be feral from the fault of humans or not, it's a hard life for the adults and horrible for the kittens. :( While there may have been no alternative for those poor feral dogs, it's not the same for feral cats. Dogs pose a danger to the humans in their territory in a way cats never could. Wild cats are fringe dwellers, it's rare to even see a truly feral cat, let alone be threatened by one. They don't hunt in packs and don't pose a threat to humans or domestic pets, (unless of course they are disease ridden, but that is not what we're talking about here). You're right, I still don't agree with trapping and killing healthy cats, just in case they might come to a bad end. I believe where there is life there is hope. TNR is the only humane answer I have found to help alleviate the sometimes horrible suffering of cats and kittens in the colonies. However they got to be feral, whether born to it, or dumped and truly reverted, if it's not possible to socialize them, I think they have a right to remain free to live their lives. I don't think we're going to change each other's minds on this subject. But I can't help voicing mine! Nina catatonya wrote: > Thank you Tamara, > > I know everyone won't agree on this. I've worked with ferals, and > I've done spay releases, and I've seen situations that were so bad > nothing else could be done.... > > I fed a PACK of nearly 20 feral dogs for 2 years, trying to make some > progress. These dogs were so wild they would chase me when I took > them food! I spent many days running, turning back to 'face them > off', trying to get the puppies out before they became feral, etc.... > It was a lose, lose, lose situation. I spent thousands of dollars and > millions of tears. I finally had to let animal control go in and trap > and euthanize those dogs. It was heartbreaking, but there was no > PLACE for them to live, and no hope of socializing them. > > I've seen cats in construction areas where they were killed because > buildings were being demolished, cats crushed in dumpsters, etc..... > My opinion is sometimes trapping and euthanizing is the best we can do > for them. And these are domestic animals, whether they be feral from > the fault of humans or not, it's a hard life for the adults and > horrible for the kittens. :( > > t > > */tamara stickler <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>/* wrote: > > Ok, I'm going to play devil's advocate: > > I have been active in the animal rescue field for most of my > life. I have walked into alleyways in crack neighborhoods, by > myself, to feed ferals and do rescues. I have spent more money > than any "sane" person should on strays, and even have driven > across several states to place the "unadoptable" because of all > I've seen, I HAD TO SEE THE HOME FOR MYSELF, because I DO know > first hand, that there ARE places worse than death. Situations > worse than death. "Loving, forever homes" sponsored by legit > rescues and good people...worse than death. > > I'm not advocating the killing of ferals, by any means! But I can > understand the "reality" behind the decision. > > Not everyone will go to the end of the world for a cat or dog that > they didn't specifically choose......We (I am including everyone > of you on this list) few are the exception....and as you all > know...there's just not enough of us to go around. > > I've worked in shelters. I've volunteered at no-kills. There > have been animals at both where even I have voiced..."Enough." > NOT because they weren't worth the trouble...but because there are > so few who would take the trouble. > > As for ferals, we do need to understand that many just don't > choose to deal with humans...either because of past experiences or > for their own reasons. But, they are intelligent, whole beings > with their own needs and desires and should be treated respecting > this.... > > I'm not certain there is an absolute right answer here...I'm not > pretending to know. > > Would I actively support the killing of ferals? NO. Is it > possible for me understand why some do?...unfortunately, when > you've seen what I've seen ...yes. > > But faced with the matter first hand, I'd still prob. go into the > poor house first...but I won't condemn those who draw the line either. > > Tamara > > */"MacKenzie, Kerry N." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>/* wrote: > > I agree with Nina. > I think it's conflicting and difficult enough to make a > decision to euthanize when an animal is terminally ill and > suffering---one is torn between desperately not wanting the > animal in our care to suffer any more, and making this > momentous and /irreversible decision on the part of another > living and helpless creature./ > So, we have absolutely no business taking the perfectly > content lives of animals into our own hands because of what/ > may/ happen to them in the future. > Re PETA, I am very disappointed in that organization--it seems > to have become confused in its old age. > PETA will not be getting $$$ from me. > Kerry > -----Original Message----- > *From:* [EMAIL PROTECTED] > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] *On Behalf Of *Nina > *Sent:* Monday, March 14, 2005 11:59 AM > *To:* felvtalk@felineleukemia.org > *Subject:* Re: OT:Tonya - killing ferals > > Tonya, > I can't believe you would advocate killing ferals as a way to > help their plight! Yes, their life is dangerous and they do > sometimes suffer, but that doesn't mean they should be put to > death. We humans are so conditioned to our relative safety > that we sometimes forget how hard life can be on wild animals, > on all wild animals. How many opossums, racoons and squirrels > are killed each day on our highways, or poisoned from > insecticides? Would you advocate systematically terminating > any species not under our direct protection? I maintain a > small feral colony and have cats that are healthy, happy and > content in their circumstances. Even if all we can do is > trap, neuter, administer one round of vaccines, and release > them, they are still better off than if we turn our backs on > them all together. Cats that are neutered are much less > likely to fight and spread disease among themselves, if they > are lucky enough to have a caretaker put out food for them > they will live in harmony. They can and do, live, full, rich, > happy lives. How arrogant it is to assume that only when they > are in our houses and under our direct care are they able to > be happy to be alive. Humans are the direct cause of these > cats circumstances, the least we can do is step up and accept > the responsibility of helping to maintain their numbers. > Believe me, I understand the discomfort of thinking about > these cats suffering and dieing out there alone, but killing > them before their time is not the answer. > > Nina > > > catatonya wrote: > >> Unless you can find a VERY safe place for the ferals and be >> sure there's someone to take care of them, I tend to agree >> with PETA. Even if the ferals have someone 'watching out' >> for them, I'm sure many of them are killed by dogs, hit by >> cars, shot, etc.... I think it's a very rough life for most >> ferals and in many cases it would have been better to put >> them to sleep. I see their point of view. >> >> t >> >> */[EMAIL PROTECTED]/* wrote: >> >> I can not believe PETA!!!!!!! They used to be known as >> the most radical animal rights group around (at the time >> that I did belong to them). This is welfarism at its >> very, very worst. How can a group that says it is an >> animal rights group advocate catching and killing >> animals? Isn't the right to live out your life without >> being killed the most basic of rights? Without that >> right, what good is any other? They are insane. I >> stopped contributing to them years ago based on other >> stances they took that I thought were crazy, but their >> position on ferals tops the cake. >> Michelle >> > This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential > and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to > whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in > error please notify the system manager. This message contains > confidential information and is intended only for the > individual named. 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