Robert Patterson Finale wrote:
David H. Bailey wrote:
When I use a metatool to place a text expression, I can't edit that placement individually from any other placement
If only want to affect one expression, why wouldn't you just drag it where you want it? Effectively, that *is* what you want, because when you drag it, you are offsetting from the default position given by the definition. (I'm hoping a new version of TGTools Align/Move might include an align to baseline option for individual exps, so we don't have to do it by eye and hand alone.)
I thought the whole issue was that we shouldn't have to do all that manual moving, though. "Automatic expression alignment" would imply that if we want them lined up so they are a uniform distance below/above the staff, the program would do it so it is uniform. Manually having to drag results in not-quite uniform alignment and was what many were complaining about in previous versions of Finale.
It is true that you need to create different definitions for different default placements. This is one reason the description field is there. I see this as a very small issue, and I don't know what a reasonable alternative would be. (One thing that would be nice is if we could program upper and lower case metatools.)
When using metatools, the definition field isn't visible, though, so it only helps when using the expression palette to select. I agree, it would be fantastic if we could use some sort of modifier key so we could set up multiple instances of a particular expression and still keep metatool assignment manageable.
I'm just expecting too much of the program as it comes out of the box -- I figured it would give alignment of expressions when I placed expressions and it would be up to me to move those which collided, if I didn't want them aligned with the other expressions.
I haven't seen the final template libraries. Last time I looked at them in beta, they seemed to do that for me.
my first 4 quarter-note test would have no collision, yet Finale seemed to think it would and so it offset my 4th beat expression).
I would have to see the example. I could not reproduce your scenario with the version I have. It depends very much on where your staff baseline is and what the offset values are in the expression definition. Assuming you haven't done this already, change all your offsets to zero (for one exp., like F). Then assign it to a series of quarter notes as you did, and move the baseline up and down and watch how the placement changes. (It helps to do fairly extreme moves.) Then set the baseline about where you want it and transpose the music up and down and watch. Personally, I like a staff baseline offset of 0 and an entry offset of around -48 evpu for exps below and 12 to 24 evpu for for exps above.
The sample I used is easy to create, using the Windows (I believe you are on a Mac, so there may well be minute differences between the two platforms) Maestro default file (I have Finale set to open with a blank default document, and using the libraries as MakeMusic included them in the maestro default file. The sample measure I used is 4 quarter-note chords of two notes each listed lower/higher: (treble-clef 3rd-space) C/E, C/E, D/F, B/G. Then using metatool 4 to place a forte expression (f) beneath each chord results in the 4th expression being lower than the first three. All four triangles for alignment are as they first appear, perfectly lined up. The fourth F placement is the only one where the dotted line runs through the middle of the box, and the first three are all slightly higher than the same dotted line (i.e. NOT aligned with the base-line triangles.)
Dragging the leftmost triangle significantly lower leaves the four expressions aligned, as I would have expected automatic alignment to have done no matter how close to the staff I placed them. Dragging the same triangle closer to the staff leaves the expressions very much out of line, following the contour of the bottom of the stems.
Transposing my example down a third leaves the notes stems down with a different alignment of expressions. Transposing the an additional third down leaves the stems up, and also leaves the expression on beat 3 way too close to the bottom line of the staff.
To my mind, which I guess is on a way-different wavelength from MakeMusic, "automatic expression alignment" would leave all the expressions at a specific location beneath the staff, regardless of the placement of the note on the staff. These are all note-attached.
For measure-attached expressions, they are all placed uniformly as they should be, without regard to entries, and horizontally wherever the cursor is when the mouse is clicked.
I can see that I will have to edit all the expressions in my libraries to get them to work as I want them to with the new version.
If you are talking about pre-Fin04 work, I don't see how you could expect any differently. Think of the hue and cry if importing an old file into Fin04 caused all the exps to move around! Naturally, existing files use the manual placement options, as the they absolutely should.
I agree that it would be an astronomically complex task to try to accomodate everyone's desires on the importing of pre-fin2004 documents. But it would be very nice if there were a utility that would universally apply the new settings to an existing library, with user-definable options for "beneath baseline" or "beneath baseline and entry" and the offsets.
One thing you've utterly failed to mention is the automatic *horizontal* placement. For my taste, MM completely nailed this. The only reason I'll ever need to drag another exp horizontally is to avoid collisions.
As to horizontal placement, I prefer expressions centered beneath the stem on stem-down notes, so I can't agree with you that they have nailed this either.
On my same quarter-note sample, try placing FFF expressions. The first F is beneath the stem, the second is beneath the notehead and the third extends into the space to the right of the note.
I would prefer such an expression to have the middle F centered beneath the stem.
Guess I'm just feeling grumpy these days!
-- David H. Bailey [EMAIL PROTECTED]
_______________________________________________ Finale mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
