I disagree. I think this is a valuable discussion. Finale is a big part of our lives and livelyhood. I think a discussion of concerns about their direction is valid.
Since I left MakeMusic, I’ve been kind of disheartened at the direction they’re going. I unfortunately don’t know many people over there since the purge of people so I really have no insight. The loss of Michael Johnson, if that is true, is a big loss. Gigantic, in fact. Michael was my boss in QA, and is a close friend and mentor. He really was/is really passionate about Finale, as am I (I spent over 10 years in support/QA/Development). Allen Allen Fisher allen.fis...@gmail.com On Apr 21, 2018, 11:04 AM -0500, wit...@nctv.com, wrote: > I'm so tired of this thread. Finale users: get on with it. Find a new subject. > Please > > -----Original Message----- > From: finale-boun...@shsu.edu <finale-boun...@shsu.edu> On Behalf Of Skjalg > Bjørstad > Sent: Saturday, April 21, 2018 11:59 AM > To: finale@shsu.edu > Subject: Re: [Finale] What is the Finale strategy? > > Don’t know about the others, but the major shortcomings in Finale’s voiced > linked parts are -Not access to special tools -No enharmonic flips > > Another limitation for linked part: Plug-ins/Script not accessible. (Scripts > are accessible with a workaround, but...) > > Skjalg - for anledningen på nett med iPhone. > > > 21. apr. 2018 kl. 16:15 skrev Robert Patterson > > <rob...@robertgpatterson.com>: > > > > Could you elaborate on what you find lacking in Finale's linked parts vs. > > Sib. (or even Dorico)? Some of that lack might be addressable with a plugin. > > > > On Sat, Apr 21, 2018 at 9:02 AM, David H. Bailey < > > dhbai...@davidbaileymusicstudio.com> wrote: > > > > > There are professional engraving projects being done with Dorico. If > > > you want to see what it is capable of there are many youtube videos > > > addressing various aspects of Dorico, and I would say that it is > > > indeed capable of very elegant professional, publishable output. > > > > > > Yes, you read that one of the Dorico users exports to Finale for the > > > finished product -- I haven't read on the Dorico forum that there are > > > others who do that. I do know there are lots like me who are > > > continuing to work in our notation software of choice while learning > > > the intricacies of Dorico. I wonder if exporting to Finale simply > > > makes things easier for that person because of a workflow developed > > > over many years of using Finale, while he is learning the more > > > intricate details of the workflow in Dorico to get the same output. > > > > > > I would say that Dorico is as much a truly professional music > > > engraving tool as Sibelius was when it entered the Windows/Mac > > > marketplace. Several publishers, if I remember correctly, began using > > > it at that time instead of Finale, while some other publishers added > > > Sibelius to their toolbox and used both. > > > > > > A lot depends on how one defines "truly professional" -- it's > > > certainly much more professional than either Notion or Forte, two > > > other recent entries into the notation software marketplace, and > > > despite major advances with MuseScore, Dorico is capable of producing > > > much more elegant printed output. And it's capable of producing > > > output as elegant as Finale's output. I don't work in avant-garde > > > notation so I can't speak to either Dorico or Sibelius or Finale > > > regarding the ability to accomplish such projects. > > > > > > I hope I'm wrong about Finale and that your thoughts are more > > > accurate, but to be honest I don't see much advancement in Finale > > > from Finale2014.5 to Finale25. Linked score/parts didn't suddenly > > > become superb and very efficient. I still find Sibelius's linked > > > score/parts to be much more efficient and easier to use. > > > > > > But I know that you and Chuck Israel and many others are producing > > > great output with Finale, and I hope development continues, with some > > > major improvements coming soon. Not only do Finale users need and > > > deserve this sort of thing, but the marketplace does also. Finale > > > used to lead, then Sibelius hit the marketplace and suddenly Finale > > > was playing catch-up with Sibelius. Will it need to play catch-up > > > with Dorico as well as Sibelius now? Or will Finale leap ahead with > > > the next version and force Sibelius and Dorico to catch up to it? > > > > > > Of course what I'm saying about Finale is also true about Sibelius -- > > > I have heard nothing about Sibelius 8 or 8.5 to make me want to > > > upgrade from 7.1.3, and ever since the takeover by Avid I have been > > > worried about future development of Sibelius. > > > > > > And ultimately it all boils down to each of us finding and using the > > > tools which allow us to get the desired result with the minimum of > > > effort for us so that most of our effort can be put into the creative > > > side of things. > > > > > > > > > > > > On 4/21/2018 8:33 AM, Robert Patterson wrote: > > > > > > > > And with the entry of Dorico at the truly professional music > > > > > engraving > > > > level > > > > > > > > Wait. Is Dorico at the truly professional level? All I've heard is > > > > that it has the potential to be but isn't there yet. I mean, one of > > > > the Dorico users in this thread even said they export to Finale for > > > > the finished product. (Which surprised me.) > > > > > > > > Everything I've heard about the most recent owners of Finale is that > > > > they are quite interested in it. But I haven't heard much about it > > > > in recent months. I hope Michael Johnson's departure was for > > > > personal reasons rather than due to a direction the owners are > > > > taking. Meanwhile the rest of the team (as far as I can tell) seems > > > > really engaged and forward looking. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Sat, Apr 21, 2018 at 4:12 AM, David H. Bailey > > > > <dhbaile...@comcast.net <mailto:dhbaile...@comcast.net>> wrote: > > > > > > > > On 4/20/2018 7:13 PM, Craig Parmerlee wrote: > > > > > > > > I take your point that they "could" do some of the abstraction > > > > that is > > > > inherent in the newer programs. I am not seeing anything that > > > > suggests > > > > to me they are at all interested in matching up to Dorico. > > > > Indeed, the > > > > only recent statements I could find were very much oriented to > > > > SmartMusic and not Finale. If they actually are making a > > > > significant > > > > investment in the program (which I question), I suggest it would > > > > be wise > > > > for them to take note of the major advances in the past 2 years > > > > in both > > > > Dorico and Sibelius, and communicate much more openly with the > > > > Finale > > > > user base. > > > > > > > > [snip] > > > > > > > > Back when Coda was the owner and Finale was the major product, they > > > > knew they had to keep communicating with users and work hard to keep > > > > the program growing in order to satisfy their user base and attract > > > > new users. But with virtually no competition in the Windows area at > > > > that time they were the program that any newcomer had to beat. > > > > > > > > With the various owners the product has had along the way, coupled > > > > with the development of a new cash-cow (smartmusic) Finale has been > > > > pushed aside somewhat, seemingly more with each new owner, and > > > > improved mainly so that it could create more and better smartmusic > > > > accompaniments in addition to producing publication-ready engraved > > > > music. To that end, whoever owned the program worked to improve the > > > > program in obvious ways again to keep the user base somewhat > > > > satisfied and also in an attempt to attract new users but mainly to > > > > benefit the SmartMusic marketplace. > > > > > > > > But the current owners are not musicians, they were not involved in > > > > the music field at all before the acquisition of Finale and > > > > SmartMusic. Their athletic-training background sees a good fit for > > > > SmartMusic since it's a training software, just for musicians > > > > instead of athletes. And so Finale tags along because without it > > > > there can't be any new SmartMusic accompaniments created. But > > > > Finale upgrades generate an unpredictable amount of income and then > > > > only when the new version comes out -- once it's out and those who > > > > will upgrade have done so, there's very little cash-flow in the > > > > product. Especially with the less-expensive (free) but very capable > > > > MuseScore attracting ever larger numbers of people who formerly > > > > would have had to purchase either Finale or Sibelius (i.e. music > > > > students and recent graduates of music schools/colleges), Finale's > > > > market share among notation software users is constantly shrinking. > > > > And with the entry of Dorico at the truly professional music > > > > engraving level the potential user base is diluted even further and > > > > the recent entry of Forte and Notion is attracting those potential > > > > users who don't want to spend a lot of money and who formerly would > > > > have purchased the cheaper versions of Finale. > > > > > > > > But SmartMusic remains the only product of its kind and it has major > > > > educational market music publishers sewn up. With the annual > > > > subscription the only business model and schools willing to budget > > > > for it so that teachers have clearly objective ways of measuring > > > > student ability (there's no disputing when SmartMusic records a > > > > student's performance and gives a concrete number of mistakes), it > > > > is a golden cash-cow. > > > > > > > > We have to remember that in the early days of Finale when Coda was > > > > run by musicians who cared about making a product that could serve > > > > them as well as the user base the thrust of the company was to make > > > > a product that filled a need. > > > > > > > > These days when the company is no longer run by musicians but > > > > instead by accountants and entrepreneurs for whom the bottom line is > > > > the most important attribute of a product, the product isn't being > > > > made to fulfill their dream of usefulness, only to fulfill their > > > > dream of larger profits. So as long as SmartMusic remains > > > > profitable and as long as Finale is the only way to create > > > > SmartMusic accompaniments, Finale will remain viable to the company > > > > but not a great income generator in and of itself. If it were a > > > > larger income generator it wouldn't be getting sold every few years. > > > > > > > > > > > > -- ***** > > > > > > > > David H. Bailey > > > > dhbaile...@comcast.net <mailto:dhbaile...@comcast.net > > > > http://www.davidbaileymusicstudio.com > > > > <http://www.davidbaileymusicstudio.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > David H. Bailey > > > dhbai...@davidbaileymusicstudio.com > > > http://www.davidbaileymusicstudio.com > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Finale mailing list > > Finale@shsu.edu > > https://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale > > > > To unsubscribe from finale send a message to: > > finale-unsubscr...@shsu.edu > > _______________________________________________ > Finale mailing list > Finale@shsu.edu > https://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale > > To unsubscribe from finale send a message to: > finale-unsubscr...@shsu.edu > > > _______________________________________________ > Finale mailing list > Finale@shsu.edu > https://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale > > To unsubscribe from finale send a message to: > finale-unsubscr...@shsu.edu _______________________________________________ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu https://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale To unsubscribe from finale send a message to: finale-unsubscr...@shsu.edu
