Bob -- I think the viewpoint on information being expressed by Gerhard is that which sees information to be embodied in configuration/conformation. If a configured entity is in the world it necessarily will encounter other configurations/conformations which will result in an 'interpretation' by both parties.
STAN On Mon, Oct 20, 2014 at 2:53 PM, Bob Logan <lo...@physics.utoronto.ca> wrote: > Dear all - my take on this post is that the question of whether physical > processes are information is like the question: Is there a sound if a tree > falls in the forest and no one is there to listen? This is like the Zen > koan: "what is the sound of one hand clapping" If no one is in the forest > are the trees information? Well for sure they are trees but as to whether > or not they are information that is strictly dependent on the point of view > of the respondent. For me they are just trees and here is why I think so. > For me information is about a process. The noun information relates to the > verb inform. If no one is being informed there is no information. In the > same way that if no one or thing is there being loved (verb) their is no > love (noun). If no one is engaged in the activity of loving (a verb) there > is no love (a noun). If there is no one being informed (a verb) then there > is no information (a noun). Now one can talk about an object or a > phenomenon having the possibility of informing someone which to my mind is > potential information which is what I would call the physical processes > that take place in our universe. A book written in Urdu is potential > information because an Urdu reader can be informed by it. For me as a > non-Urdu speaker there is very little information other than someone went > to the trouble of writing out a text with Urdu letters and hence there is > probably information there for an Urdu speaker reasoning why would any one > make the effort to create such an object unless that person wanted to > inform Urdu speakers. Just as one person's food is another person's poison > so it is that one person's information is just for another persons merely a > physical phenomenon such as processes in nature, ink on paper, sounds or EM > signals. Shannon developed a theory of signals in which some of those > signals have the ability to inform some recipients. I hope this collection > of words has informed you other than giving you the knowledge of my view as > to what constitutes information. Thanks to Joseph, Pedro, and Igor for the > opportunity to reflect on the nature of information. If you enjoyed my post > and would like to learn more about my views on information please send me > an email off line and I will send you an email version of my book *What > is Information? Propagating Organization in the Biosphere, the > Symbolosphere, the Technosphere and the Econosphere * for free. And now > you know what an infomercial is. This was an infomercial because of my > offer to share my book with you erudite scholars of FIS whose posts I > always enjoy. With kind regards - Bob > ______________________ > > Robert K. Logan > Prof. Emeritus - Physics - U. of Toronto > Chief Scientist - sLab at OCAD > http://utoronto.academia.edu/RobertKLogan > www.physics.utoronto.ca/Members/logan > www.researchgate.net/profile/Robert_Logan5/publications > > > > > > > > > On 2014-10-20, at 1:57 PM, PEDRO CLEMENTE MARIJUAN FERNANDEZ wrote: > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > *From:* Joseph Brenner <joe.bren...@bluewin.ch> > *To:* Igor Gurevich <iggurev...@gmail.com> ; Pedro C. Marijuan > <pcmarijuan.i...@aragon.es> ; fis <fis@listas.unizar.es> > *Sent:* Monday, October 20, 2014 8:40 AM > *Subject:* Re: [Fis] Physical Informatics contains fundamental results > which impossible to get only by physical methods > > Dear Igor, Dear Gerhard and Colleagues, > > In Igor's summary of his recent work, I read the following absoutely > critical statement: > " It is shown that the expansion of the Universe is the source of > information formation, wherein a variety of physical processes in an > expanding Universe provide information formation." I take this as meaning > that the expansion of the Universe as such does not produce information. > > Gerhard's formulation is slightly different (my paraphrase): > "The first assymetry in energy distribution, following the singularity, is > the source of information formation". > > My question is, therefore, how best to combine these insights. For > example, we may say that the variety of physical processes are all the > consequence of, and subsequently reflect, a first assymetry. > > It is also interesting to note that the approaches of both Igor and > Gerhard imply the emergence of information through the interactional impact > (informational interactions) of fundamental forces on particles, extended > by Gerhard to somewhat higher levels of organization (life) than Igor. > > I look forward to further discussion of these fundamental issues. > > Sincerely, > > Joseph > > ----- Original Message ----- > *From:* Igor Gurevich <iggurev...@gmail.com> > *To:* Pedro C. Marijuan <pcmarijuan.i...@aragon.es> ; fis > <fis@listas.unizar.es> > *Sent:* Wednesday, October 01, 2014 9:47 AM > *Subject:* [Fis] Physical Informatics contains fundamental results which > impossible to get only by physical methods > > Dear Pedro C. Marijuan, > Dear colleagues, > I send you "The main results of Gurevich I.M. (Physical Informatics > contains fundamental results which impossible to get only by physical > methods)" > > and "Igor Gurevich: Main publications in English" . > With best wishes. > > Igor Gurevich > > ------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > Fis mailing list > Fis@listas.unizar.es > http://listas.unizar.es/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fis > > _______________________________________________ > Fis mailing list > Fis@listas.unizar.es > http://listas.unizar.es/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fis > > > > _______________________________________________ > Fis mailing list > Fis@listas.unizar.es > http://listas.unizar.es/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fis > >
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