----- Original Message -----
*From:* Joseph Brenner <mailto:joe.bren...@bluewin.ch>
*To:* Stanley N Salthe <mailto:ssal...@binghamton.edu> ; fis
<mailto:fis@listas.unizar.es>
*Sent:* Friday, October 24, 2014 9:25 AM
*Subject:* Re: [Fis] "The Travelers"
Dear Stan, Pedro and Bob L.,
I agree with Pedro that meaning is not present as an actuality when
simple physical systems interact. But I agree in part with Stan also
that we can, today, attribute a 'further interesting aspect' or
a 'forerunner' of meaning to such processes. In my language, meaning, or
meaningful information, is therefore present as a potentiality.
This helps, I think, to see meaning not as an acquired set of
informational entities, but as a process, an evolving set of relations
to the underlying simpler physical and biological processes. Deacon
describes well the recursive cognitive processes involved, only possible
at the our evolved level, permitting the establishment of other higher
level relations, e.g. creative and emotional.
Another pertinent language is that of immanence. In a fully
deterministic universe, we, and our roles, were 'present' at its
inception in its current form. This might appear as an empty
metaphorical attribution, for all ordinary practical purposes, but it
is not empty if it has consequences for ethical behavior.
Thank you and best wishes,
Joseph
----- Original Message -----
*From:* Stanley N Salthe <mailto:ssal...@binghamton.edu>
*To:* fis <mailto:fis@listas.unizar.es>
*Sent:* Thursday, October 23, 2014 3:27 PM
*Subject:* [Fis] "The Travelers"
Pedro wrote:
PM: Regarding the theme of physical information raised by Igor and
Joseph, the main problematic aspect of information (meaning) is
missing there. One can imagine that as two physical systems
interact, each one may be metaphorically attributed with meaning
respect the changes experimented. But it is an empty attribution
that does not bring any further interesting aspect.
SS: I have advanced ( On the origin of semiosis. / Cybernetics and
Human Knowing/ 19 (3): 53-66. 2012 ) the idea that whenever context
influences importantly any reaction which, even in the physical
realm, might be viewed as an informational exchange, there is the
forerunner of the interpretation of an interaction, Such a simple
'interpretation' (proto-interpretation) would then be the forerunner
of meaning generation. When context importantly influences the
outcome of a physical interaction, this brings a "further
interesting aspect" beyond the purely physical.
STAN
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--
-------------------------------------------------
Pedro C. Marijuán
Grupo de Bioinformación / Bioinformation Group
Instituto Aragonés de Ciencias de la Salud
Centro de Investigación Biomédica de Aragón (CIBA)
Avda. San Juan Bosco, 13, planta X
50009 Zaragoza, Spain
Tfno. +34 976 71 3526 (& 6818)
pcmarijuan.i...@aragon.es
http://sites.google.com/site/pedrocmarijuan/
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