1) Let me second to the point Alex raises:
machines, computers, do exchange information. It would be against cultural
conventions to say that the notification that the refrigerator sends to
your phone's app "to-do-list" of the content "milk only 0.5 liter
available" is not an information.
The signals my car's pressure sensor sends to my dashboard, saying "tire
pressure front right wheel is critically low" is a clear case of
information, whether I read it or not.
2) Let me add to the point Alex states, namely that the "form of
information that I presented to FiS a year ago offers the only
scientifically based,mathematical physics form of 'information' that I have
personally seen in the scientific literature", (Alex, will you please
restate in the present context, for the present discussion, your
formulation) the following:
I have given in my work "Natural orders - de ordinibus naturalibus" (ISBN
9783990571378) the following definition of the term "information":
8.3.3.3 Information is a description of what is not the case.
[Let *x = a**k*. This is a statement, no information contained. Let *x = a*
*k* and *k **<symbol for is_included_in> {1,2,...,k,...,n}*. This statement
contains the information *k **<symbol for is_not_included_in>*
*{1,2,...,k-1,k+1,...,n}*.]
(Sorry for the included & not-included symbols not making it thru the
simplified text editor in use here.)
Karl
2017-03-24 18:51 GMT+01:00 Alex Hankey <alexhan...@gmail.com>:
> BUT, in common parlance, computers and mobile phones 'exchange
> information' (in the abstract, digital sense) all the time. Including this
> email.
>
> If you wish to cleanly restrict yourself to semantic content, the the form
> of information that I presented to FiS a year ago offers the only
> scientifically based,mathematical physics form of 'information' that I have
> personally seen in the scientific literature.
>
> Best wishes,
>
> Alex Hankey
>
>
> On 24 March 2017 at 15:25, Krassimir Markov <mar...@foibg.com> wrote:
>
>> Dear Arturo and FIS Colleagues,
>> Let me remember that:
>> The basic misunderstanding that non-living objects could “exchange
>> information” leads to many principal theoretical as well as psychological
>> faults.
>> For instance, photon could exchange only energy and/or reflections !
>> *Sorry for this n-th my remark ... *
>> Friendly greetings
>> Krassimir
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* tozziart...@libero.it
>> *Sent:* Friday, March 24, 2017 4:52 PM
>> *To:* fis@listas.unizar.es
>> *Subject:* [Fis] I: Re: Is information truly important?
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Dear Lars-Göran,
>> I prefer to use asap my second FIS bullet, therefore it will be my last
>> FIS mail for the next days.
>>
>> First of all, in special relativity, an observer is NOT by definition a
>> material object that can receive and store incoming energy from other
>> objects.
>> In special relativity, an observer is a frame of reference from which a
>> set of objects or events are being measured. Speaking of an observer is
>> not specifically hypothesizing an individual person who is experiencing
>> events, but rather it is a particular mathematical context which objects
>> and events are to be evaluated from. The effects of special relativity
>> occur whether or not there is a "material object that can recieve and store
>> incoming energy from other objects" within the inertial reference frame to
>> witness them.
>>
>> Furthermore, take a photon (traveling at speed light) that crosses a
>> cosmic zone close to the sun. The photon "detects" (and therefore can
>> interact with) a huge sun surface (because of its high speed), while we
>> humans on the Earth "detect" (and can interact with) a much smaller sun
>> surface.
>> Therefore, the photon may exchange more information with the sun than the
>> humans on the Earth: both the photon and the humans interact with the same
>> sun, but they "detect" different surfaces, and therefore they may exchange
>> with the sun a different information content.
>> If we also take into account that the photon detects an almost infinite,
>> fixed time, this means once again that it can exchange much more
>> information with the sun than we humans can.
>>
>> In sum, once again, information does not seem to be a physical quantity,
>> rather just a very subjective measure, depending on the speed and of the
>> time of the "observer".
>>
>>
>>
>> *Arturo Tozzi*
>>
>> AA Professor Physics, University North Texas
>>
>> Pediatrician ASL Na2Nord, Italy
>>
>> Comput Intell Lab, University Manitoba
>>
>> http://arturotozzi.webnode.it/
>>
>>
>> ----Messaggio originale----
>> Da: "Lars-Göran Johansson" <lars-goran.johans...@filosofi.uu.se>
>> Data: 24/03/2017 14.50
>> A: "tozziart...@libero.it"<tozziart...@libero.it>
>> Ogg: Re: [Fis] Is information truly important?
>>
>>
>> 24 mars 2017 kl. 13:15 skrev tozziart...@libero.it:
>>
>> Dear Fisers,
>> a big doubt...
>>
>> We know that the information of a 3D black hole is proportional to its 2D
>> horizon, according to the Bekenstein-Hawking equations.
>>
>> However, an hypotetical observer traveling at light speed (who watches a
>> black hole at rest) detects a very large black hole horizon, due to
>> Einstein's equations.
>> Therefore, he detects more information from the black hole than an
>> observer at rest, who sees a smaller horizon…
>>
>> An observer is by definition a material object that can recieve and store
>> incoming energy from other objects. Since it requires infinite energy to
>> accelerate even a slighest object to the velocity of light, no observer can
>> travel at the speed of light. That means that your thought experiment is
>> based in inconsistent assumptions and no vaild conclusions from them can be
>> drawn.
>> Lars-Göran Johansson
>>
>>
>> In sum, information does not seem to be a physical quantity, rather just
>> a very subjective measure...
>>
>> *Arturo Tozzi*
>>
>> AA Professor Physics, University North Texas
>>
>> Pediatrician ASL Na2Nord, Italy
>>
>> Comput Intell Lab, University Manitoba
>>
>> http://arturotozzi.webnode.it/
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Fis mailing list
>> Fis@listas.unizar.es
>> http://listas.unizar.es/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fis
>>
>>
>> Lars-Göran Johansson
>> lars-goran.johans...@filosofi.uu.se
>> 0701-679178
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
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>>
>
>
> --
> Alex Hankey M.A. (Cantab.) PhD (M.I.T.)
> Distinguished Professor of Yoga and Physical Science,
> SVYASA, Eknath Bhavan, 19 Gavipuram Circle
> Bangalore 560019, Karnataka, India
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