This message is from: "Carol Riviore" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Hello from Carol Rivoire at Beaver Dam Farm in Nova Scotia --
This is a very interesting and worthwhile discussion with several important
points being made ---
I said in one post . . . . "If you believe in the purpose and intent of the
Evaluations, then you have to believe that a horse receiving a Blue is a
better horse than one getting a Red. --
First of all, I want to say that I think the NFHR's use of Blue, Red,
Yellow, etc. ribbons was a BIG mistake. -- It makes it very hard to
remember that these ribbons do not represent what horse show ribbons
represent. -- It would have been better to use some other designation;
such as 1st class, 2nd, etc. -- Or, Gold, Silver, Bronze, etc. --
Something other than that which is associated with ordinary horse shows
where as Rondi Tyler said . . . . "You can take the same horse to two
different shows, and place first in one before one judge, and the next
weekend, place third in front of another judge."
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Every judge has an inner preconceived template by which they process
their
conclusions (they can't help it-->
One dog may go Best of Breed one day by one judge, only to be eliminated
the
next day by another judge who didn't like that dog's "type".
Reading Ruthie's comments above, it seems to me that much of the same is
true
in an Evaluation of horses. True??
Rondi Tyler.
So. Calif.
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Evaluations are not supposed to be like that, Rondi. -- The judges are
supposed to be so familiar with Fjords, so immersed in the breed that they
know in their hearts and sinews just what a Fjord is supposed to look
like -- I'm not sure that is the case in North America where the judges are
not strictly Fjord people, but do many other breeds.
------------------------------
I found Pat Holland's comments extremely interesting. In fact, she made me
think of things in a different way. --
Sometimes ONE component alone will make the composite score
lower than the 80 needed for a blue. For example the Nik horse, (that
started this whole conversation,) received a 6.75 on his head, but got
an
8.0 overall, 8.25 body and high 7's on the rest of the individual
components. Now, an example of another great stallion which I admire - LLA
Hilmar received an 6.5 on forelegs..BUT he got a 9 on his head - and 9 in
type (2X) which pushed him to the 81 score and into the blue level. Both
horses received an 8 overall - the other components were close.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Pat made it crystal clear that in order to interpret and use the Evaluation
scores, you have to look at each component, not the total. -- The part
that surprised me because I never thought about it before was that a score
of 9 for a head can overcome a 6.5 on legs giving the horse a Blue. --
This shows us so clearly that the Evaluations are a tool to be used in
making breeding decisions -- That's the way it is in Europe, and always
has been.
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That is where disposition is not reflected, I know they say it plays a
part
in the performance tests, but in my opinion it does not play a large
enough
part. If we loose the disposition of the good Fjord, it doesn't matter
how
they are put together conformation wise, if they don't have the MINDS, the
willingness to work and the wisdom to learn without a fight - you don't
have
a horse.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
If the American Evaluation system does not strongly enough reflect
disposition in the performance tests, then there's something wrong. -- In
the Dutch Evaluation system, disposition is absolutely displayed by HOW the
horse performs the riding, driving, and draft test. -- I can't emphasize
this enough.
In each of those three disciplines, it is mostly HOW the horse does the
test, rather than how well he does the test. -- For instance, if he knocks
a rail in the jumping portion of the riding test, he will not be penalized
if he willingly attempted the fence. -- Same thing in the draft test --
If he willingly stands to be harnessed and hitched to the drag, and if he
gives an honest effort, he will get a good mark. --- This is how
disposition is measured in the Dutch tests.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I challenge the Evaluators to keep in the back of their minds all the
while
they are scoring that without the disposition - conformation means nothing
more than a pretty picture.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Gotta disagree with that last senstence. -- Conformation is NOT just a
"pretty picture" ===== Far from it! -- Conformation determines how the
horse moves. It determines the lifetime soundness of the horse ---- It
determines the ability of the horse to be a good riding and driving horse.
It is definitely not just "a pretty picture" --- I really hope that idea
can be put to rest.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I've also been intriuged with Ruthie's comments on maintaining genetic
diversity. -- She's absolutely right. The question is how to foster that
principle. In Holland, the one country I'm most familiar with, they keep
strict control on their breeding program insuring quality on many different
fronts which include genetic diversity. -- This is why Holland regularly
buys breeding stallions from Norway, France, Germany , Denmark, Sweden.
Kind Regards, Carol Rivoire
