fjordhorse-digest Monday, December 10 2001 Volume 2001 : Number 322
In this issue:
Libby
Re: Libby
Re: sinus problems
Re: Pedigrees from Holland
Re: Solar and Lindsay
Re: Solar - A Matador of N.A. Fjord Breeding
Re: Pedigree Information - 5 generation registration cert.
Re: Pedigree Information - 5 generation registration cert.
Fjord Pedigrees--Future Possibilities
Denny Emerson's article
Re: Denny Emerson's article
Unique Hitch ( really really long )
Re: Unique Hitch ( really really long )
Re: Pedigree Information - 5 generation registration cert.
Re: Fjord Pedigrees--Future Possibilities
See the end of the digest for information on how to retrieve back issues.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Sun, 9 Dec 2001 11:59:46 EST
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Libby
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
No Evaluation At Libby? So when and where is the fjord evaluation this year?
I was under the impression (assumed) that there was always an eval at Libby.
Turlock? Where? I'm kind of in a quandry as my work impacts its time off
availability very late in the year for the next calendar year. Now I may not
be able to access the time off for whenever the eval is going to be. Drat.
Pamela Garofalo
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 09 Dec 2001 12:27:16 -0500
From: "Mike May, Registrar NFHR" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Libby
This message is from: "Mike May, Registrar NFHR" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
At 11:59 AM 12/9/2001 -0500, you wrote:
>This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
>No Evaluation At Libby? So when and where is the fjord evaluation this year?
> I was under the impression (assumed) that there was always an eval at
> Libby.
> Turlock? Where? I'm kind of in a quandry as my work impacts its time off
>availability very late in the year for the next calendar year. Now I may not
>be able to access the time off for whenever the eval is going to be. Drat.
The dates or places for the 2002 Evaluations have not been set yet
Pam. The committee is working on it now.
Mike
=======================================================
Norwegian Fjord Horse Registry
Mike May, Registrar
Voice 716-872-4114
FAX 716-787-0497
http://www.nfhr.com
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 9 Dec 2001 11:00:03 -0800
From: "Jean Gayle" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: sinus problems
This message is from: "Jean Gayle" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
By the way Steve W "are you dosing with smzs in water" etc. Have you tried
using water? The smzs separate and become thick and almost hard so they do
not go through the large hypo. Maddening. It is a point for applesauce.
Jean
Jean Walters Gayle
[Authoress of "The Colonel's Daughter"
Occupied Germany 1946 To 1949 ]
http://users.techline.com/jgayle
Send $20
Three Horses Press
PO Box 104
Montesano, WA 98563
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 09 Dec 2001 04:29:16 -0600
From: Pat <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Pedigrees from Holland
This message is from: Pat <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
After importing our first group of weanlings from Holland in 1997 and finding
the
empty blanks in some of the pedigrees, I tried to get information from Holland
and
never received it. So I, through much research from studbooks, Dutch Fjord
Magazine and Bob van Bon's Book, was able to provide Mike May with information
to
fill in the blanks found not only on our papers, but once the information was
fed
into the computer it filled in the holes for horses Carol and others have
imported. I personally found the pedigree search fascinating and have hugh
charts
with lines drawn to - connecting bloodlines - to me it was like a puzzle -
always
looking for the missing piece. This taught me a great deal about bloodlines and
crosses that seem to work better than others. Let me add that Mike May didn't
just take my word for these "fill-ins" I had to provide him with all the facts,
copies and so forth for him to accept it - and rightfully so.
It's funny how things work out, when we first had this problem I guess I could
have insisted that someone make it right. But by doing the research myself I
received a good education on Fjord pedigrees - of which in the end has made us
better educated breeders with the ability to make better informed mating
decisions.
Perhaps Carol with her Honorary Award from Holland could be the liason to not
only
get pedigree updates but updates on the "ster" and "elite' status of the
various
imports.
Sophie Fiedler - Green Valley Farm
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 09 Dec 2001 07:46:30 -0600
From: Pat <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Solar and Lindsay
This message is from: Pat <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> . Solar passed away on 10/2/2001.
When I started working for Howard and Sophie they sent me to the east to meet
with
Lindsay. I spent two days with her and Susan Cook and Marcy Bear. I'd been away
from horses for some years and forgotten what it was like to be wrapped in horse
talk. The four of us took off in carts and horseback to trail ride the lovely
woods
of Vermont. Yea right, at one point I expected to see Sherpas carrying oxygen
tanks.
Those New Englanders are one tuff lot.Then the next evening, Lindsay gave me the
tourist thing, only we were loosing daylight fast. Lindsay would point out a
covered
bridge over there- only you couldn't see it because it was so dark. She pointed
out
a historic farm with a round barn - only you couldn't see it because it was so
dark
- - It was also pointed out to me where the beginning to the Bob Newhart show
was
filmed - but you couldn't see it ..... and on and on. Maybe you had to be
there, but
I never laughed so hard. She also introduced me to Denny Emerson - a personal
friend
of hers. I was impressed.
But what I remember most of the trip was Solar - and Lindsay - she loved that
horse
more than her next breath. She shared some of her history with me and it sounded
like he got her through some pretty ruff times. I've heard alot of stories on
the
Digest about people loosing their horses and the effect left on them, but boy,
I'd
bank on the fact that Lindsay and Solar top the list for heartbreak.
Solar had 73 offspring. some super daughters like Villrose, Bryhyl Aryel,
Sophia,
Holly and Burlwood's Zoe. I'm sure there are more daughters deserving mention
but
these are the only ones I've seen. Not to mention the breeding stallion Courage,
still standing in Holland - a son of Solar.
Great horse - great owner - irreplaceable partnership.
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 09 Dec 2001 20:56:08 -0400
From: Arthur and Carol Rivoire <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Solar - A Matador of N.A. Fjord Breeding
This message is from: Arthur and Carol Rivoire <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Hello from Carol Rivoire at Beaver Dam Farm in Nova Scotia -
I knew that Solar wasn't in good health, but I was still shocked and
saddened to hear of the death of this wonderful stallion. Solar was one of
the "Madadors" of North American Fjord breeding.
The term "Matador" as it applies to Fjord breeding means stallions who've
had a tremendous influence on the breed - stallions like Njal,
Rosendalsborken, Bergfast, Malm, Baronen.
Solar had all the credentials in the world, both in Norway and Holland, and
now after close to twenty years, in North America as well.
He was born in Norway in 1977, and approved there in 1981, and either that
year or soon after was purchased by the Nederlandse Fjordenpaarden Stamboek
as a Studbook stallion.
Solar was a son of Helleve 1756 who was a son of Valebu 1569. I believe
Valebu can be considered a "Matador" as well. Some well-known and important
stallions can be traced back to Valebu. These include: Solar, Reidulf
Ree, Rei Halsnaess, Dragmann DK 475, Norman 123, Briggen.
One descendent of Valebu who was a Dutch Approved Stallion, though not a
great or long-lived one, is Zolvar, better known as BRIG, now in northern
California, 22 years old and still winning CDEs.
Another descendent of Valebu is the stallion, Karibu, also in the U.S.
Holland very much valued the Solar contribution. Bob van Bon once said to
me that Solar's value was in the character and temperament of his
offspring. Bob's comment was that "anybody can be successful with a Solar
son or daughter." We've certainly found that to be true. We've had (and
have) several Solar daughters, and all have been wonderfully easy horses.
Right now, we have two Solar daughters (BDF Toril and Holly), and a Solar
son, Shatalya's Jarle (for sale). It's not an exaggeration to say these
are the some of the nicest examples of the breed.
Solar was a nice stallion, but I remember once when his "niceness" worked
against him. It was the stallion class at Woodstock many many years ago.
There were Norwegian and Dutch judges, and despite Solar having been an
Approved Stallion in both countries, he came in third in the judging. The
reason was - He was too quiet. He didn't strut his stuff as much as the
judges like to see.
The other reason the judges gave was that Solar's belly was too rounded,
and this can be seen in all his photos, as well as in all his offspring.
Solar's approved son in Holland, Courage, has the rounded "mare belly".
Most all the Solar daughters we've had have tended to be extremely big in
the belly, even those that have never foaled. --- It's just a
characteristic of the line. Another one of those things you find in horse
breeding that keep you humble and realizing that "No horse is perfect!".
Not even the best of them, and Solar was one of the best!
We love and value our Solar daughters and our one Solar son. They're
fabulous Fjords, and the two mares have worked and produced for us for a
lot of years. Toril, being barren, has been a school and performance horse
her whole life, and is always there for us. She really is a jewel. She'll
be 19 years old this April, and we'll be depending on her as usual for our
Nova Scotia Beginner Driving Vacations.
Holly, who'll be 15 this Spring has given us seven extremely good foals,
and in between years, does yeoman work in the driving vacations.
Jarle, who's only 3 1/2 is already a fabulous trail horse, and is
progressing beautifully in his driving. --- These are good horses, easy
to train, and easy to work.
We've had other beautiful Solar daughters at the farm recently to be bred
to Gjest. Our driving vacation guests fondly remember Zona from this
summer. A great driving horse, a real worker, and 100% dependable.
I'm so very sorry that Solar's gone, and I think it's important that North
American Fjord people realize just how good a horse he was, and how
important he's been to our breeding programs. And how LUCKY we were that
Solar ended up on this side of the Atlantic.
For those of you who don't know how that happened, I'll tell you the story
as briefly as I can.
He was purchased in Holland by the owner of Ivory Ranch, which was a
big-time operation that owned many famous stadium jumpers and employed
Margie Goldstein to ride them. This man had a son who lived in the
Catskill Mountains in NY. The son was a back-to-the-lander, and the father
thought that a herd of Fjordhorses would be a nice gift. The son had
expressed interest in Fjords at one time or another, so the father bought
him a herd - Solar and six or eight mares.
The son was less than pleased because all he wanted was one Fjord for his
little farm . . . not a whole herd of them. The result of this was that
all the horses and their foals ended up on the father's estate on Long
Island Sound. A beautiful estate, but no place for horses. -- The herd
was for sale which is why I went, but for various reasons decided not to
buy them, and sometime after, they were purchased by a Fjord person in
Mass. And sometime after that, Solar was purchased by Lindsay Sweeney,
where he stayed (I assume) until he died.
I guess part of the reason I'm so sad about this is that Solar and Gjest
were buddies, kind of . . . They were born the same year in Norway, and
then approved the same year. Then both were purchased by Holland, and
eventually, both imported to the States.
Gjest will be 25 next Spring, and thank goodness, is still in great shape,
and still working and breeding. He has no arthritis. He also has almost
no more teeth, but thanks to Senior Feed, we're able to get around that.
We don't know how many more years he'll be with us, but we treasure each
day he's our same old Gjest. There'll be five more Gjest foals this
Spring. One in MI, one in ME, and three in Nova Scotia, including one out
of our Solar daughter, Holly.
Considering Solar's importance to American Fjord breeding, I hope that
something permanent is done to recognize his contribution, honor his
memory, and perpetuate the quality he represented. He was a Matador for us
in North America.
Regards, Carol Rivoire
>>
>>I heard that Solar might have passed away. Does anyone know if this is true?
>
>Yes that is true. Solar passed away on 10/2/2001.
>
>
Carol and Arthur Rivoire
Beaver Dam Farm Fjords II
R.R. 7 Pomquet
Antigonish County
Nova Scotia
B2G 2L4
902 386 2304
http://www.beaverdamfarm.com
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 09 Dec 2001 19:54:46 -0400
From: Arthur and Carol Rivoire <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Pedigree Information - 5 generation registration cert.
This message is from: Arthur and Carol Rivoire <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Hello from Carol Rivoire at Beaver Dam Farm in Nova Scotia -
>Carol,
>I guess I would have to ask why this information
>was not requested by you when you originally
>imported the horse
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Yes, I could request this information when importing horses, and get it
without problems.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>If you accepted the pedigree as is when you
>bought the horse - why now the need to update it?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Because a completed pedigree certificate is better than one with holes in
it, and when I bought the horse, she wasn't registered by NFHR, just by the
Dutch, so I had no way of knowing if the NFHR had all her antecedents in
its data base, or not.
PLEASE UNDERSTAND that all this information is on record in Holland, and
(I assume Norway). It's only a question of somebody asking for it.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> If it's for the reason of saleability I would
>think it's your responsibility to request the
>information.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Please understand that I used this case as an example only. It's important
that all U.S. Fjordhorses have as complete pedigrees as can be obtained.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
If it's for the reason to have
>complete pedigrees, I would think that the NFHR
>would only be responsible for what it requires of
>any horse registered with NFHR.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
That's right. The NFHR is only responsible for what it requres of any
horse . . . That's the present policy.
And that's my point. It should be part of the Registrar's job to complete
pedigrees to five generations. Why have a 5 generation registration
certificate and not try to complete it?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
(If you want to
>work to change that policy - that's another story
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
That's what I'm doing by asking you what you think, and by asking Mike and
the Board to change the policy.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Preserving the integrity of pedigree information is vital, which is why I
think the NFHR Registrar should be the one to request and receive the
information. Not individuals - Much less chance of error.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
ANOTHER PROBLEM - When an owner sends in an application to register, or
transfer from another registry, he can't know until he receives his NFHR
certificate whether it's going to be a complete 5 generation pedigree, or
whether there'll be holes in it. --
If it's not, he then has to track down the missing information, return the
original certificate (with another fee), and wait for a new certificate to
be made. Problem is, this isn't an easy task for a lot of owners as many
would have no idea where to get this information. The NFHR Registrar knows
how to do it.
Isn't there a better way? Should owners contact Mike before sending in
registration applications or transfers to find out if five generations are
in the computer?
That would entail much more work for Mike because he'd have to look up
every applicant, rather than just the ones that come up incomplete when
he's doing the certificates.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
This is pretty simple. 4th and 5th generations Fjordhorses are in the
European Studbook computers.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
The NFHR should write the European registries and formally request their
cooperation in obtaining prompt pedigree information on horses in their
data banks.
When you finally get the registration certificate for your new Fjord,
wouldn't you rather have it completely filled in, rather than see a lot of
blank spaces?
Regards, Carol Rivoire
Carol and Arthur Rivoire
Beaver Dam Farm Fjords II
R.R. 7 Pomquet
Antigonish County
Nova Scotia
B2G 2L4
902 386 2304
http://www.beaverdamfarm.com
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 09 Dec 2001 23:54:46 -0400
From: Arthur and Carol Rivoire <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Pedigree Information - 5 generation registration cert.
This message is from: Arthur and Carol Rivoire <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Hello from Carol Rivoire at Beaver Dam Farm in Nova Scotia -
>Carol,
>I guess I would have to ask why this information
>was not requested by you when you originally
>imported the horse
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Yes, I could request this information when importing horses, and get it
without problems.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>If you accepted the pedigree as is when you
>bought the horse - why now the need to update it?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Because a completed pedigree certificate is better than one with holes in
it, and when I bought the horse, she wasn't registered by NFHR, just by the
Dutch, so I had no way of knowing if the NFHR had all her antecedents in
its data base, or not.
PLEASE UNDERSTAND that all this information is on record in Holland, and
(I assume Norway). It's only a question of somebody asking for it.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> If it's for the reason of saleability I would
>think it's your responsibility to request the
>information.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Please understand that I used this case as an example only. It's important
that all U.S. Fjordhorses have as complete pedigrees as can be obtained.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
If it's for the reason to have
>complete pedigrees, I would think that the NFHR
>would only be responsible for what it requires of
>any horse registered with NFHR.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
That's right. The NFHR is only responsible for what it requres of any
horse . . . That's the present policy.
And that's my point. It should be part of the Registrar's job to complete
pedigrees to five generations. Why have a 5 generation registration
certificate and not try to complete it?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
(If you want to
>work to change that policy - that's another story
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
That's what I'm doing by asking you what you think, and by asking Mike and
the Board to change the policy.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Preserving the integrity of pedigree information is vital, which is why I
think the NFHR Registrar should be the one to request and receive the
information. Not individuals - Much less chance of error.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
ANOTHER PROBLEM - When an owner sends in an application to register, or
transfer from another registry, he can't know until he receives his NFHR
certificate whether it's going to be a complete 5 generation pedigree, or
whether there'll be holes in it. --
If it's not, he then has to track down the missing information, return the
original certificate (with another fee), and wait for a new certificate to
be made. Problem is, this isn't an easy task for a lot of owners as many
would have no idea where to get this information. The NFHR Registrar knows
how to do it.
Isn't there a better way? Should owners contact Mike before sending in
registration applications or transfers to find out if five generations are
in the computer?
That would entail much more work for Mike because he'd have to look up
every applicant, rather than just the ones that come up incomplete when
he's doing the certificates.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
This is pretty simple. 4th and 5th generations Fjordhorses are in the
European Studbook computers.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
The NFHR should write the European registries and formally request their
cooperation in obtaining prompt pedigree information on horses in their
data banks.
When you finally get the registration certificate for your new Fjord,
wouldn't you rather have it completely filled in, rather than see a lot of
blank spaces?
Regards, Carol Rivoire
Carol and Arthur Rivoire
Beaver Dam Farm Fjords II
R.R. 7 Pomquet
Antigonish County
Nova Scotia
B2G 2L4
902 386 2304
http://www.beaverdamfarm.com
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 9 Dec 2001 17:30:25 -0800
From: "Ursula Jensen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Fjord Pedigrees--Future Possibilities
This message is from: "Ursula Jensen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Dear List from Brian Jensen;
I thanked Carol R. because this is a topic worth
discussion, and although we do not agree, possibly this list can provide
ideas and options for future considerations!!! There does need to be an
International Bank of all Registered Fjords in the world. It could be
established as an internet Bank by a person--or-- FHI--or Norway as the
mother country. There would be a cost of downloading for individual requests
as Carol has made based on her experiences.
Are there any entrepreneurs out there, what do
you think??? Possibly we could get comments from Eika in Germany, Ode in
Switzerland, Bob in Holland, Brigit on Denmark, and of course Arne in
Norway????? Lets talk about this!!!---------Brian Jensen
Ursula & Brian Jensen
Trinity Fjords
Box 1032 Lumby BC Canada V0E-2G0
http://okjunc.junction.net/~ujensen/
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
(250) 547-6303
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 9 Dec 2001 21:40:11 EST
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Denny Emerson's article
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Hi Vivian,
Denny's article was insightful, as always, and he brought up some good
points - most especially the bit about breeding a mediocre horse to the
cheapest (or closest) stallion you can find, hoping that you will improve
your stock. Just doesn't work. Bad movement begets bad movement, no matter
how much you hope for an improvement. Same goes with flighty dispositions,
crooked legs - you name it.
I get worried hearing breeders say something to the effect that "this
mare has a goofy personality, but the stallion should dilute it." Or - "we
can improve her questionable conformation by breeding to a stallion with
better legs."
Yes indeed, the mating might improve some of the faults in one parent
or the other. That's what selective breeding is all about. BUT - breeding
mediocre horses is not doing any favors to our breed. Trying to improve a
bad-legged horse by breeding to a better conformed one is - dare I say -
irresponsible. You shouldn't be breeding that bad-legged horse in the first
place!
Our job as breeders is to find the best specimens that we can, and
match them with horses that should equal or improve them. Some horses are
better suited to one task than to another - we should know our goals and
breed for them.
Horse breeding is certainly not an exact science - you can breed the
best to the best, and still get a mediocre - or worse - horse. BUT -
planning your matings, doing your research, understanding conformation, and
using the best animals does greatly increase your chances of getting an
individual that you can be proud of.
Can you tell that I feel strongly about this? Sorry for the rant....
Jan
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 9 Dec 2001 22:10:24 EST
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: Denny Emerson's article
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
In a message dated 12/9/01 6:50:02 PM Pacific Standard Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
> Horse breeding is certainly not an exact science - you can breed the
> best to the best, and still get a mediocre - or worse - horse. BUT -
> planning your matings, doing your research, understanding conformation, and
> using the best animals does greatly increase your chances of getting an
> individual that you can be proud of.
> Can you tell that I feel strongly about this? Sorry for the rant....
> Jan
>
Yep. I agree. I've had a couple decent quality horses, that I would NOT
breed. I had the colt gelded and didn't breed the 2 mares. They were great
riding horses, but were not the best representatives of their breeds. It's
much easier to buy GOOD horses than breed and get ???? And it can certainly
be a crap shoot, even with good stock. Our palomino mare was pregnant when
we bought her, and she had a drop dead gorgeous palomino filly. Every
quarter horse person who saw her was absolutely floored. She was so nice, we
tried it twice. The next baby, full sister, was a weird rabicano roan color.
With a gawky looking body, and was really very so-so. I really was not
thrilled with her personality, she was NOT the kind of horse I want around a
special needs child, so she went up for sale. She eventually was sold to a
man who just adores this horse. But really, we barely got more than the stud
fee for her. And with all the time, energy, feed, vet care, training we put
into her, we lost our shirts! So, the same cross produced one A+++ filly,
and one C grade. Go figure.
Now the Juniper and Misha cross, I could not have asked for a better filly.
Nice legs, feet, conformation. A beautiful feminine look and an easy,
pleasing disposition. Our trainer is having a WONDERFUL time working with
this one!
Pamela
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2001 00:45:49 EST
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Unique Hitch ( really really long )
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
In a message dated 12/9/01 9:05:38 AM Mountain Standard Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
<<
Just a reminder that the Libby Show will be held on the weekend of Sept 13 -
15, 2002. This is when the town of Libby has scheduled their Nordicfest
celebration. The Show Comm. invites ideas for new, exciting classes - you
may submit them to me privately. Also, we need comments/committments for one
particular class, Unique Hitch. This can be a crowd-pleaser, and is fun for
participants, but has had very few entries in the past few years, so we plan
to leave it out unless we get enough commitments from participants to have a
decent - sized class. Listen up, out there! Let us hear from you.
We had a good Show Comm meeting today in Ritzville, [yes, beautiful downtown
Ritzville] - your show is in good hands. So let's hear what you want!
Otherwise, you'll only get what we want. One thing for sure, the Stick Horse
Class will have an "Adult" division this year; we have to - we can't keep
them out.....
>>
Sorry for pulling in so much of the original post here, but
needed to keep reading it to believe it myself.
I need to come out of lurkdom to speak on this one. Not sure whos idea it
is to leave out a class like " Unique Hitch, " but as a member of this club,
and someone who has traveled 2000 miles several times with horses to attend
and support this evaluation and show, I feel I can make my point here.
When and where was it that you saw your first Fjord ? How did it
strike you ? Did you know ( like me and many others ) that someday, somehow
you would HAVE to own one of those Fjords ? Someone, was out there,
promoting the breed, even if it was to stand a few out in some pasture in MN.
or advertise in some horse rag about one for sale. Or, you attended a show or
event, maybe a parade, and saw one or more of them, right ? For me it was
their quiet nature. Then I saw a few in a big Calif. CDE, winning the coveted
" best condition " in very oppressive heat. I KNEW I had to have one, when I
stood in a pasture of mares and babies, leaning on the herd sire, while he
calmly babysat his youngsters and mares.
People comming to see the Fjords at the Libby show, come to see the
Fjords. Maybe its to bring grandpa in a wheelchair, to be able to see the
farm ponies he worked in Norway with HIS grandpa. Or, maybe someone is
thinking of buying a Fjord, like so many people who have stopped and talked
to us while we were at Libby, showing. Or, maybe a Fjord owner is searching
for a stallion to breed their only mare to.
My point is : The Unique Hitch class is not about the number of
participants. In fact, if there were too many entries, it would not be a safe
class to be in, given the types of differant entries driving out there. Where
else do people get to see farm impliments going around, pulled by Fjords, in
farm collars, tilling, spreading, plowing or disking ? Where else do people
have a chance to see a 4 or 5 abreast of Fjords, all working together at
differant gaits ? Of course there are moments of brilliance. People like the
Jensens, who have thrilled the crowd, and fellow exibitors with a tandem, a
randem, a quadrum, and even a " suicide " hitch. There are no other classes
in the entire country ( or North America for that matter ) for hitch's like
these.....and to see it done with Fjords is the BEST thing going.
Go to any horse show in the summer around the country. See kids classes,
leadline, western, english ect. ect. even driving class.( YAWN. ) But, go to
a Fjord show....and you will < HOPEFULLY > continue to see UNIQUE classes
geared towards what the Fjord traditionally did, or CAN do. If you eliminate
pulling, logg-skidding, or any other class that shows off the Fjord doing
something that people come to see....or remember for years, than you lose.
Promoting the Fjord horse has nothing to do with number of entries in a
Unique Hitch class. It has to do with moments of brilliance, from the
loggers, farmers, pullers......and brave, excellant drivers, willing to spend
the time, money ( do you know how much leader lines cost for 4 and over
horses ? ) effort, endless training ect ect. to bring these moments to shows
like Libby. Im betting that the people, or person who wants to cancel Unique
Hitch class, has never driven anything daring or unique themselves, let alone
in a crowded show setting. Hey....we took a TANDEM in Unique class a few
years ago, ( big deal ) and pushed ourselves to get there with it. It was
unique for US, and a very pretty, elegant traditional hitch, with lots of
history about why it was driven ect. This year we drove our 4 . Not all that
unique, but gave the crowd on that day, a look at a big formal, beautiful
hitch. We didnt go out there in t-shirts and ball caps either....but dressed
to the nines, borrowed a formal groom dressed in livery, and braved another
round with 12 Fjords out there in the heat and dust. I think that people
in the crowd will remember the class. They were prob. moved and gratefull for
all the work that went into bringing 4 matched Fjords 2000 miles to show
what they can do. I know that Beth and Brain also turned on and presented
their best that day also. 3 entries has NOTHING to do with ANYTHING. The ring
was full. Peoples eyes were full. People will REMEMBER it.
To further talk about adding an adult stick horse class, in the same place
where its causually mentioned to eliminate the toughest, most REMEMBERED
class for Fjords in the whole country ( Im counting Turlock, Blue Earth and
Libby ) is just insulting. The kids stick horse class was cute for the
parents, mildly fun for the kiddies ( until they were made to stand around
sweltering in the heat for 45 min before the class started, then I saw alot
of unhappy faces ) a good photo-op for the familys, but did nothing to
promote the Fjord horse. If you think that grandpa, sitting in his wheel
chair, that came to see the Fjords.....or the people searching for
information on buying one, or someone there to see a potential stallion, had
their socks knocked off by the kids on their sticks, you are wrong. Im not
talking about eliminating the kids classes. Goodness knows, we were out there
with Cody, not that many years ago. BUT, dont take away the very
class.....where you see photos from those moments of brilliance heading
peoples web sites, or on the front page of the local paper, or on the cover
of an all-breed newspaper.
Dont discount the leaders, and the brave people trying to show something
differant or UNIQUE in the world of Fjords. Otherwise, what will make
people come to a Fjord show, isstead of any other horse show going on ? Dont
casualy state that due to lack of entries......you need commitments. If you
have it, we will come. We will not come to show ourselves riding around on
wooden fake Fjords. If you want to do that, go for it. Better at lunck break,
or between major tack change classes. People do not come to Libby to see
Michele Noonan, Catherine Lassissen, Shirley Anderson, or ME galloping around
on sticks. ( friends of mine, all...you better be laughing M,C,+S )
OK Ive said my piece. Pulling on my flame suit. Matter of fact, flame
away.....Im used to it. Now that I think of it.....I might PAY to see Sandy
North out there riding her stick Fjord pony. Oh well, dream on. ; /
Keep the Unique Hitch class. Keep the pulling, logg skidding and any
other beautiful, difficult or crowd thrilling class. Promote what the Fjord
can do....and what Fjord owners are willing to push themselves to try. Not
how many people are out there, that year, willing to do it.
Lisa Pedersen * Cedar City, UTAH
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2001 02:27:38 EST
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: Unique Hitch ( really really long )
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Hello everyone,
Even though we have yet to make it to Libby (long story), we would be very
saddened to hear the Unique Hitch Class would be terminated. As a matter of
fact, this very class is one of my personal draws to making it to Libby.
What is more beautiful then seeing 3 or more Fjords working together? The
experience of watching them draw farm equipment as they have been bred to do
for centuries? This is a class that shows the heritage of the Fjord along
with the future of the Fjord.
I was fortunate enough to see a tandem hitch of Fjords on a tape...and since
then have been working with miniatures to learn this style in the hopes of
progressing to my Fjords. I do very much hope that one of the Fjord shows in
the future will still have a class available for such hitches. As a matter
of fact, it seems a shame to even have a Fjord show without pair, multipule,
and unique hitch classes offered.
Sincerely,
Lynda
Lynda and Daniel
Bailey's Norwegian Fjord Horse Farm
White Cloud, MI
231.689.9902
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://hometown.aol.com/baileysfjords/
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2001 08:11:20 -0500
From: "Mike May, Registrar NFHR" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Pedigree Information - 5 generation registration cert.
This message is from: "Mike May, Registrar NFHR" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
At 11:54 PM 12/9/2001 -0400, you wrote:
>This message is from: Arthur and Carol Rivoire <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>
>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>
>That's right. The NFHR is only responsible for what it requres of any
>horse . . . That's the present policy.
>
>And that's my point. It should be part of the Registrar's job to complete
>pedigrees to five generations. Why have a 5 generation registration
>certificate and not try to complete it?
>
>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Sorry Carol but the present policy is that the person registering the horse
is responsible for providing the pedigree information. Not the
Registrar. Here is the wording from the Rules for Registration under
requirements for Registration:
========================================
A photocopy of the original or official pedigree of sire and dam, including
grandparents and great grandparents will be required with exceptions for
the following horses providing they meet all other criteria for
registration as detailed in articles I, II, VI, VII and VIII.
Horses registered with The Norwegian Fjord Horse Registry before April 21,
1984.
Canadian and American Foundation Stock horses
Foals of a. and b. above
Horses whose sire and dam are registered with the Norwegian Fjord Horse
Registry.
=========================================
The reason the last part is there is because if they are registered then I
have their pedigrees.
>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>
>ANOTHER PROBLEM - When an owner sends in an application to register, or
>transfer from another registry, he can't know until he receives his NFHR
>certificate whether it's going to be a complete 5 generation pedigree, or
>whether there'll be holes in it. --
Not True. Have you ever tried the Pedigree program on the NFHR Web
Site? You can look up any horse there. Just type in a name, if the horse
comes up it is in my database. Even better you can do a "Hypothetical
Mating" and put in the sire & dams names and if they are in the database it
will
>Isn't there a better way? Should owners contact Mike before sending in
>registration applications or transfers to find out if five generations are
>in the computer?
Yes use the NFHR web site. If you don't know how to get there here is a link:
http://www.nfhr.com/ponyweb/
If you want to go directly to the "Hypothetical Mating" then use this one:
http://www.nfhr.com/ponyweb/ponyweb.cgi?matesearchform
Mike
=======================================================
Norwegian Fjord Horse Registry
Mike May, Registrar
Voice 716-872-4114
FAX 716-787-0497
http://www.nfhr.com
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2001 08:30:18 -0500
From: "Mike May, Registrar NFHR" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Fjord Pedigrees--Future Possibilities
This message is from: "Mike May, Registrar NFHR" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
At 05:30 PM 12/9/2001 -0800, you wrote:
>This message is from: "Ursula Jensen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>
> Dear List from Brian Jensen;
> I thanked Carol R. because this is a topic worth
>discussion, and although we do not agree, possibly this list can provide
>ideas and options for future considerations!!! There does need to be an
>International Bank of all Registered Fjords in the world. It could be
>established as an internet Bank by a person--or-- FHI--or Norway as the
>mother country. There would be a cost of downloading for individual requests
>as Carol has made based on her experiences.
> Are there any entrepreneurs out there, what do
>you think??? Possibly we could get comments from Eika in Germany, Ode in
>Switzerland, Bob in Holland, Brigit on Denmark, and of course Arne in
>Norway????? Lets talk about this!!!---------Brian Jensen
I think that would be a great tool for the Fjord world Brian. Do you know
if all of the other countries actually have all of their studbooks on a
computer system?
Mike
=======================================================
Norwegian Fjord Horse Registry
Mike May, Registrar
Voice 716-872-4114
FAX 716-787-0497
http://www.nfhr.com
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
------------------------------
End of fjordhorse-digest V2001 #322
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