fjordhorse-digest Thursday, February 20 2003 Volume 2003 : Number 050
In this issue:
Re: Fjords at Waverly Horse Sale
Re: Fjords at Waverly Horse Sale
Hopeful horse loggers
Re: harness bells
Re: Fjords at Waverly Horse Sale
Re: Sarcoids in sheath?
Re: Sarcoids in sheath?
Re: Fjords at Waverly Horse Sale
Re: Fjords at Waverly Horse Sale
Re: breeding problem
Proud Bottom Ranch
Sisters, OR
Re: Proud Bottom Ranch
Re: Proud Bottom Ranch
horse logging....
problem with breeding
Re: oxen ques
Re: Fjords at Waverly Horse Sale
Re: New question-problem with breeding
Stop making me search through two databases...
Re: Stop making me search through two databases...
Re: fjordhorse-digest V2003 #49
Re: Stop making me search through two databases...
harness bells
Re: Sarcoids in sheath?
See the end of the digest for information on how to retrieve back issues.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Wed, 19 Feb 2003 17:05:58 EST
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: Fjords at Waverly Horse Sale
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Does anyone know what day the fjords will be auctioned? Thanks, Linda in MN
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 19 Feb 2003 17:17:29 -0500
From: "Mike May, Registrar NFHR" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Fjords at Waverly Horse Sale
This message is from: "Mike May, Registrar NFHR" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
At 10:12 AM 2/19/2003 -0800, you wrote:
>This message is from: GAIL RUSSELL <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>
>The stallion may be going...Tim has 24 Fjords registered to his name. (Of
>course, maybe the NFHR does not yet have the 2002 babies listed.)
There are 4 of them listed. I don't know how many he had but I don't have
any pending for him.
=======================================================
Norwegian Fjord Horse Registry
Mike May, Executive Director & Registrar
PO Box 685
Webster, NY 14580-0685
Voice 585-872-4114
FAX 585-787-0497
http://www.nfhr.com
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 19 Feb 2003 17:20:59 MDT
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Hopeful horse loggers
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>From Rhonda Taylor, Straw Hat Stables to Linda Schleef and other hopeful
horse loggers: there is a great website for L&T Logging of Maine. They
are a horses only logging company. You can email [EMAIL PROTECTED],
or get the web site from communities.msn.com.LTlogging. My neighbor just
spent the summer logging for the Ramah Restricted Watershed area with a
mule team. If there are no horse loggers in your area, check for any mule
clubs. Good luck!
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------------------------------
Date: Wed, 19 Feb 2003 18:19:57 -0500
From: "Bossmare" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: harness bells
This message is from: "Bossmare" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
So true. Years ago we boarded at a barn surrounded by popular hunting land.
We decided to add a bell to the saddle so hunters would know we were there.
We didn't know enough to condition the horses. They were fussy at the walk
but we kept getting a faster and faster trot as the bells rang.
Not unlike the story my husband told me of an experience he had as a young
boy in Belgium and Germany during WWII. He and his brothers were always on
alert for bombing raids, German soldiers and the like. He was alone in the
woods one day and thought someone was chasing him. The faster he ran, the
faster his pursuer ran. Until he realized it was his very own corduroy
pants!
Lois Berenyi in NJ with two mares who wonder where the grass went under the
knee high snow.
- ----- Original Message -----
From: "Jean Gayle" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <fjordhorse@angus.mystery.com>
Sent: Wednesday, February 19, 2003 1:41 PM
Subject: Re: harness bells
> This message is from: "Jean Gayle" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>
> Re bells. Years ago a man came up with the idea of bridle rosettes with
a
> good sized bell on them. Anything new was picked up rapidly and so there
> were many serious accidents. Not only the horse wearing the rosettes the
> first time but also horses near by panicked. So be sure your horse hears
> those bells for awhile before attaching them to the harness. Jean
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Jean Walters Gayle
> Aberdeen, WA
> Author:The Colonel's Daughter
> $20 PO Box 104
> Montesano, WA 98563
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 19 Feb 2003 18:06:06 -0600
From: "Carol J. Makosky" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Fjords at Waverly Horse Sale
This message is from: "Carol J. Makosky" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
>Does anyone know what day the fjords will be auctioned? Thanks, Linda in MN
>
>
>
>
Hi Linda,
It is <www.waverlysales.com>
- --
Carol M.
On Golden Pond
N. Wisconsin
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 19 Feb 2003 18:31:33 -0600
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: Sarcoids in sheath?
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Gail,
It is possible that it could be a sarcoid, but it doesn't sound typical.
It could be a number of things. I would have it biopsied to know for
sure. It could be a lipoma, too. Is it bulging to the outside so that
you can see it with him just standing there?
Steve
Steve White, DVM
Sport Horse Veterinary Service
Gretna, NE
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 19 Feb 2003 16:17:24 -0800
From: GAIL RUSSELL <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Sarcoids in sheath?
This message is from: GAIL RUSSELL <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
At 06:31 PM 2/19/2003 -0600, you wrote:
>This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
>Gail,
>
>It is possible that it could be a sarcoid, but it doesn't sound typical.
>It could be a number of things. I would have it biopsied to know for
>sure. It could be a lipoma, too. Is it bulging to the outside so that
>you can see it with him just standing there?
THANKS STEVE. It is about the size of an over-sized grape. Maybe it could
be a lipoma. You can't really see it from the outside ....partly because
the sheath skin is loose I suppose (if it were on his barrel I would guess
it would show as a bulge due to its size). It is fully enclosed,
well-encapsulated, and attached to the inside of the skin by an area that is
maybe 1/2 inch wide by one inch long....maybe less. It feels like you can
get your figures almost all the way around it. It is attached JUST to one
side of the midline of his sheath, back fairly close to the testicles (where
they were!).
I will probably have it biopsied all right. BTW....my vet figured that we
"cured" the sarcoids that were there by biopsying them...that it somehow
might have ramped up his immune response to them.
Thanks!
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 19 Feb 2003 19:28:33 EST
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: Fjords at Waverly Horse Sale
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Hello,
Linda, I agree. There is something terribly wrong if 34+ are going through
in IA, a potential 20+ in OR, and then 3+ in CO all within a month's time.
Obviously, the market is flooded.
Lynda and Daniel
Bailey's Norwegian Fjords
Quality Fjords--Equine Transportation--Hand-braided Tack & Accessories
White Cloud, MI
231-689-9902
FAX: 775-383-6813
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.hometown.aol.com/baileysfjords
United Equine Foundation
http://www.unitedequinefoundation.org/homepage.htm
Lynda C. Welch
President, PMU and Breed Specific Division
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
UEF Fjord rescue email group: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 19 Feb 2003 20:29:09 EST
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: Fjords at Waverly Horse Sale
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Hello,
All 25 of Tim's horses will be there.
Lynda and Daniel
Bailey's Norwegian Fjords
Quality Fjords--Equine Transportation--Hand-braided Tack & Accessories
White Cloud, MI
231-689-9902
FAX: 775-383-6813
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.hometown.aol.com/baileysfjords
United Equine Foundation
http://www.unitedequinefoundation.org/homepage.htm
Lynda C. Welch
President, PMU and Breed Specific Division
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
UEF Fjord rescue email group: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 19 Feb 2003 21:14:14 -0500
From: "Frank & Sally Higgins" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: breeding problem
This message is from: "Frank & Sally Higgins" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
For Rhonda Taylor
I don't know if this is your problem or not, but years ago I had a Morgan
mare we were trying to breed. She always settled first time, then absorbed
the fetus around 4 months. Our vet finally came to the conclusion it was an
RH blood factor; and then we bred her to a Saddlebred, which resulted in a
foal. We never did get a Morgan foal from her, which was very strange; but
had success crossing her to the Saddlebred. Go figure!
Sally Higgins in Maine where there is too much snow to sleigh ride!
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 19 Feb 2003 22:37:17 EST
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Proud Bottom Ranch
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Hello everyone,
I just got off the phone with Denise from Proud Bottom Ranch in MT. She is
selling about 20 of her herd as they are having to relocate due to career.
She has got some very nice stock, her breeding program is based around
producing grey. She has a wonderful grey stallion, <A
HREF="http://www.nfhr.com/ponyweb/ponyweb.cgi?horse=2173&OwnerName=denise&OwnerState=MT&SearchFor=1&Page=1&Sort=0";>MCGUIRE</A>
BDV-K-938-S, and
also four brown dun mares who consistently produce grey offspring if bred to
a grey stallion!
She has some younger stock, including two grey boys, plus some other mares.
All very nice! Most are registered with the CFHA.
She is thinking about taking them to this auction in OR, yes, but is not
going to take bottom dollar, thank goodness! She really loves her Fjords.
If anyone is looking for some very nice Fjords, young, mares, or a great
stallion, here is Denise's information:
DENISE GALBRAITH
(406) 363-7523
<A HREF="mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]">[EMAIL PROTECTED]</A>
Thanks,
Lynda and Daniel
Bailey's Norwegian Fjords
Quality Fjords--Equine Transportation--Hand-braided Tack & Accessories
White Cloud, MI
231-689-9902
FAX: 775-383-6813
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.hometown.aol.com/baileysfjords
United Equine Foundation
http://www.unitedequinefoundation.org/homepage.htm
Lynda C. Welch
President, PMU and Breed Specific Division
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
UEF Fjord rescue email group: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 19 Feb 2003 23:29:07 +0000
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Sisters, OR
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
We plan on going to the SFJ auction in April also. We try to go every
year and have a great time. This year I think we are going to try to
stay for a couple days instead of going down and back in one day!
Barb Lynch
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 19 Feb 2003 19:45:01 -0800
From: GAIL RUSSELL <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Proud Bottom Ranch
This message is from: GAIL RUSSELL <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
How many horses are they keeping? They have an elderly broodmare named Lena
(C116, I think) that I wonder about. She was born in 1975. I have in mind
a possibility for her if she is sound enough and trained enough to be a
beginner's mount. Will they be breeding at all?
Gail
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 19 Feb 2003 19:57:52 -0800
From: GAIL RUSSELL <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Proud Bottom Ranch
This message is from: GAIL RUSSELL <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
PS: I tried the e-mail address ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) and it came back.
At 07:45 PM 2/19/2003 -0800, you wrote:
>This message is from: GAIL RUSSELL <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>
>How many horses are they keeping? They have an elderly broodmare named Lena
>(C116, I think) that I wonder about. She was born in 1975. I have in mind
>a possibility for her if she is sound enough and trained enough to be a
>beginner's mount. Will they be breeding at all?
>
>Gail
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 19 Feb 2003 21:13:16 -0800
From: "Karen McCarthy" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: horse logging....
This message is from: "Karen McCarthy" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Linda,
Many moons ago I too knew squat about horse logging. I had moved to a remote
property in the Calif. Gold Country, and we had more than enough oak wood
laying in the gullies, or in trees that needed felling, but I had none of
the expertise to bring it in. Eventually someone, I think it was Nancy
Lehnert, pointed me in the direction of Mike & Steve Bowers, in Ft
Collins,Co. They have draft horse workshops at their ranch, using mostly
full-sized draft horses, and after 4 days I felt then & I still think now it
was one of the most valuable horse ed. things I have ever undertaken...and
this coming from a former dressage queen wanna be! :~))
Anyway, I can't reccomend them highly enough, but I am sure there are other
equally valuable teachers out there, even folks who don't teach for a
living, but can safely take you through the in's & out's of doing this task.
It's all too easy to get into trouble, believe me! So, find a
teacher/mentor, get a decent enough heavy duty work harness & a collar that
fits, and go for it.
If you were close enough, I'd be willing to take some time to help you get
started & show you the ropes; where are you located? If you are anywhere
near Redmond & the SFJ auction, maybe Amy has a reccomendation?
Good luck!
Karen McCarthy
Great Basin Fjords :: Carson City, Nv
www.picturetrail.com/weegees
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2003 06:44:30 EST
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: problem with breeding
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Hi Rhonda,
I have a mare with exactly the same problem. She cycles fine, gets in
foal easily, but will only carry for a few months before aborting. With her,
the problem is a damaged uterine wall, probably from a uterine infection at
some earlier point in her life. She has the hormones to support the
pregnancy, but not the uterine structure, and so when the fetus starts to
grow, she slips the foal.
You might want to have your vet do a hormonal check-up on her
(hormonal imbalance could cause the same problem), as well as a uterine
biopsy. It's a simple procedure ,and will save you a great deal of stress if
you can figure out what is going on.
Jan
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2003 08:22:00 EST
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: oxen ques
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
"...> I've always wondered. Exactly what is an oxen? Is it a seperate breed
> or just a trained cow? ..."
Hey, don't feel bad! :-) MANY folks think there is only one definition of
oxen - but it varies depending on what part of the world is talking about it.
Most common - an oxen is a castrated male cow who does draft work, like a
draft horse.
*Also definition* - a specific breed of cattle - male or female, whole or
castrated.
I've had folks tell me many times "there's only one oxen" -- but then, I tend
to take the word of the chairperson of the Mancha Mini Oxen breed's word for
it. Hmmmmm, I *think* the chairperson, the breed's founder, just *might*
know something of what she's talking about! (big grin)
Sher
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2003 08:24:29 EST
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: Fjords at Waverly Horse Sale
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
"...> Waverly Midwest Horse Sale...dispersal of 24 registered Fjords...Another
> group of 14 Fjords...I have no idea how the Fjords are selling at this
> sale, this is not the first time..."
I hear Waverly fjords are affordable - - would love to hear back from anyone
on the list who has seen what the trail ready riding fjords tend to go for at
Waverly ????
Yep - I got my Waverly preview in the mail yesterday and saw those (above) !
It's a 14 hr one way drive for me. BUT if I could get a trail riding trained
fjord that my humble savings could manage to purchase --- I would drive that
in a heart beat! :-) I sent an email off to Waverly, asking if they could
give an estimate of what the fjords tend to go for. *I* know that I will
never be able to afford to buy a fancy high bred registered fjord - with all
respects to those who can! I'm jealous! :-) But I am realistic - my love
of fjords far surpasses what my wallet can pull together. So my future fjord
will likely be a grade or some lesser quality. That's ok -- it's better than
no fjord at all. :-)
I'm been working towards getting my own fjord for a while. It's going slow,
as I was also building a business at the same time (pony ride business).
Supporting both of these dreams is very costly (grin) - "both" meaning
getting my fjord *and* building a business, a career, from scratch.
Sher
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2003 08:59:15 -0600
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: New question-problem with breeding
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Dear Rhonda,
I don't believe your mare is absorbing the fetus. At 4-5mos. the fetus
would be to large to reabsorb and she would instead abort it. Are you
sure she loses it at this time or are you just noticing that she is
coming back into heat at this time? It could be that she had lost it
much earlier, but just didn't come back into to heat right away.
I would have a uterine biopsy and culture done to see if there is a
problem with the uterus. Once you get her rebred, I would have your vet
palpate her once a month to see if and when she does abort. Progesterone
supplementing may be useful the first couple of months, but after that
the fetus takes over and it is up to it to maintain the pregnancy.
I would strongly suggest you go with the biopsy and culture before
rebreeding this year. Good luck.
Steve
Steve White, DVM
Sport Horse Veterinary Service
Gretna, NE
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2003 11:26:52 -0500
From: "Peter Randall" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Stop making me search through two databases...
This message is from: "Peter Randall" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Do you think we are ever going to be able to get the Canadian and American
databases combined, correlated or available for cross searching?
North America is one. very inter-connected and dependant continent. Horses
move between US and Canada no doubt on a weekly basis.
Does it make sense to only see 35 of Lukas's (C-795) descendants on the US
site and then only another (different) 35 on the Canadian site?
Someone or some organization should work on some type of unified database
where you get a much more complete picture of a horse, his descendants,
history etc.
I want to be able to tell the horse went from New Mexico to Alberta to Ontario
and then to New York if necessary. To be able to track his owners and progeny
through all this.
Who's ready to tackle this job? If fact...why can't we just have one
association and number horses 'NA' for North America instead of horses having
a Canadian and US registration?
It's time has come, free trade and all. Lets get together and give people the
whole picture.
W Peter Randall
Randall Farms.
[demime 0.99c.8 removed an attachment of type text/x-vcard which had a name of
W. Peter Randall PM CHRP.vcf]
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2003 11:12:31 -0700
From: "ruth bushnell" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Stop making me search through two databases...
This message is from: "ruth bushnell" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Why can't we have just one association? Because we're two very different
countries (I would guess.) I believe the registry in Canada is government
administered (connected) somehow. (records in Ottawa) A data base that
would encompass both registries would be a major undertaking requiring
considerable resources (I imagine) but Mike May can give a more accurate
assessment of this possibility I'm sure... if he hasn't just fainted dead
away from such a suggestion =)))
I can't see that it's that much trouble to look into both.
Ruthie, nw mt
If fact...why can't we just have one
> association and number horses 'NA' for North America instead of horses
having
> a Canadian and US registration?
>
> It's time has come, free trade and all. Lets get together and give people
the
> whole picture.
>
> W Peter Randall
> Randall Farms.
>
> [demime 0.99c.8 removed an attachment of type text/x-vcard which had a
name of W. Peter Randall PM CHRP.vcf]
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2003 13:04:25 MDT
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: fjordhorse-digest V2003 #49
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Horse bells - I responded about the center or backstrap location of
bells. After reviewing the great antique prints of the typical
behind-the-gig saddle bells, I taxed my grandfather WHY his Percherons
always wore backstrap bells - or bells that only went over the top of the
harness at the saddle and the hipstrap.
Grandpa Tolliver,(circa 1899) says,
1)Topsy, the Percheron mare caught a hoof in the dangling-below-the-girth
bell strap, so he decided NO harness parts would dangle loose below the
horse. He shortened the broken strap, and when she was driven alone, wore
the bells as a back strap.
2)his team of Topsy and Jet (Percherons) typically wore 40-80 harness
bells. He likes bright, clean brass, and got tired of cleaning muck, mud,
and ice out of the bells when the horses kicked it up from the road (not
all snow is as pristine as Courier and Ives) - so all his harnesses had
extra D-rings to connect the bells across the back, but ended at the
tugs, so only the girths passed underneath. Sorry if I confused anyone.
R.Taylor, Straw Hat Stables
- ------------------------------------------------------------------
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------------------------------
Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2003 15:29:49 -0500
From: "Mike May, Registrar NFHR" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Stop making me search through two databases...
This message is from: "Mike May, Registrar NFHR" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
At 11:26 AM 2/20/2003 -0500, you wrote:
>This message is from: "Peter Randall" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>
>Does it make sense to only see 35 of Lukas's (C-795) descendants on the US
>site and then only another (different) 35 on the Canadian site?
Not really.
>Someone or some organization should work on some type of unified database
>where you get a much more complete picture of a horse, his descendants,
>history etc.
What organization do you think would be willing to take on this very
expensive project that would probably have little or no real monetary
payback? Don't get me wrong I think it would be great too but I just don't
see where the $ would come from.
>Who's ready to tackle this job? If fact...why can't we just have one
>association and number horses 'NA' for North America instead of horses having
>a Canadian and US registration?
>
>It's time has come, free trade and all. Lets get together and give people the
>whole picture.
The NFHR will register (and does) Canadian horses. Of course the Canadian
Registry will also register US horses. Not sure what the answer is.
Sorry.
Mike
=======================================================
Norwegian Fjord Horse Registry
Mike May, Executive Director & Registrar
PO Box 685
Webster, NY 14580-0685
Voice 585-872-4114
FAX 585-787-0497
http://www.nfhr.com
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2003 16:10:33 EST
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: harness bells
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
R Taylor........thanks for the information on why your grandfather put the
bells along the back strap - makes perfect sense to me. Very interesting
reading. Linda in MN
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2003 16:00:43 -0600
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: Sarcoids in sheath?
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Gail,
I have also seen bumps on the sheath like this in response to an insect
bite. A local spot of inflammation occurs and then a little fibrous bump
results.
You might just keep a close watch on it. If it doesn't increase in size
or change consistency then you might just save your money on the biopsy.
> BTW....my vet figured that we "cured" the sarcoids that were there
> by biopsying them...that it somehow might have ramped up his immune
> response to them.
The biopsy might have caused some local inflammation that allowed the
body to penetrate the mass and build an immune response. Sarcoids are
caused by a virus and somehow it isolates itself from the body so the
body can't attack it. One old method for treating multiple sarcoids was
to cut one off, grind it up and mix it with a solution. You would then
inject this into the horse. This would be like making a vaccine to the
sarcoid.
One method I use for some sarcoids is to inject them with an immune
stimulant that we use for respiratory infections. It seems doing
anything to get the immune system to attack the mass helps recovery.
Steve
Steve White, DVM
Sport Horse Veterinary Service
Gretna, NE
------------------------------
End of fjordhorse-digest V2003 #50
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