If I were you I'd be pissed and ask for half my money now and a written
contract with a spec, timeframe and milestones. If it doesn't come Id
stop developing for that company on the grounds that the contractor has
changed the oral contracts premesis.
About asking for cleaning up the code it's not a good thing, the
developer should write clean code from start, unless it's a prototype.
If you are on a real short timeframe, keeping your head cool is the most
important thing, doing your code fast is a timebomb for getting very
hard bugs to solve, which eats up the time you gained and more. So I'd
take my time and thing before coding in any situation. Be smart and KISS
(Keep it simple stupid)
Also, only focus on what you really need to get the things done, if you
know where other stuff will come in later, add a comment and move on.
Having a todolist with deadlines helps to keep you focused.
Oh, by doing as I suggest with your contractor things can go havok,
especially with money, it's up to you.
I don't know the whole relationship you've got with them. Just don't
blame me when the shit hits the fan ;)
My 2 cents
/Christoffer
Anthony Pace skrev:
Hello all,
I was sucked into this project because I was told by my PM that I
could use it as a portfolio piece to show off my coding skills and I
could take up to six weeks on my evenings and weekends; however, after
the first week all I heard was that I was not moving fast enough. 4
weeks into the development cycle, and my access to the FTP server has
been blocked, and I am worried about whether or not I am going to get
paid.
Every time I even suggested cleaning up the code or getting more
object oriented for later sustainability, I was told that if it would
take half an hour longer that I shouldn't do it. Here I am thinking
about avoiding support hassles and making it easier for a third party
to use and edit my code in the future; yet, he doesn't give a shit,
and that he just wants it NOW. "Well what about the clients needs?
don't you want to give them something they will be happy with?", to
which he retorted "I love the way you are thinking, you are definitely
in the right head space; yet, right now I don't give a shit, I need to
show my client something, and I just want it NOW." Okay, I understand
needing to show the client something; yet, why not promise them a
realistic time frame?
Tired of this independent BS and dreaming of a real project,
Anthony
sebastian wrote:
You can give clients more than they ask for, but just tell them
clearly that you are. I've done this numerous times before and it
hasn't led me into bad expectations the next time. It's all about
being clear. Calculating efforts, communicating them for your and
your client[s] benefits [before you negotiate final price], and then
communicating progress -- in such a way that details are only
discussed when unclear or when you need their input, or you are truly
stuck/delayed.
In essence, all of this is 101 project management [PM] skills. As an
independent it goes a long way to be a good PM... even if the only
person you are managing on your team is yourself to the client...
;)
Good luck! Hope you made it out ok.
:)
Seb.
dr.ache wrote:
Like everytime - a communication problem. Sometimes a developer is not
capable of explaining all that stuff to a client because he stucks
in details a
client should not be confronted with - then he needs a middle man.
Sometimes the middle man itself has to less ideas what development
means so he uses the wrong communication tools, too - what the client
is concerned.
Next time you should communicate at an earlier stage that you gonna
work your ass off to make that work a good one. Its weird to have a
client
complain about things that are actually good for him. How does it come?
Communication problem!
Ultimately I think the client just feels passed over in the decision
process.
Thats why he is not satisfied with a better version of his website.
Anthony Pace schrieb:
Hi again,
My client is saying his client is going to back out of the deal now
if he doesn't get all of his revisions to the interface by the
weekend; not a difficult request, but I will never work for my
client again. You need paper between you and your client, and if
you don't get that paper, it is not the developer's fault.
Who takes on a project from a client without getting papers
signed? For goodness sake get a contract online at the very least
and have it signed; yet, then again, I didn't with my middle man,
who is turning out to not to be a really good middle man after
all. I need a middle man that will make it so I don't have to talk
to the client at all unless it is about design and interface/work
flow choices.
My middle man says he will pay me, but what an idiot for taking on
a client like that. If his client backs out and he is out of
pocket, should I make him pay? I feel bad for this guy, but I did
a lot of work giving them an AJAJ system when they just wanted
stale html; another area I made a mistake, because I wanted a
portfolio piece.
I should have just given them what they wanted, because now my
middle man's client thinks what I gave him is what I usually give
clients for the same price. I will never give a client more than
what they asked for again.
Learning the hard way,
Anthony Pace
Anthony Pace wrote:
Hello all,
Thank you to those that responded,
I was able to get in touch with both my client and my client's
client, and after a little bit of discussion as to what was
required in the work flow, I can say I am comfortable with them
again. At first I thought that they were being insensitive to my
situation; yet, I realized they too were under a great deal of
stress to make this project happen, as this is a gateway project
to bigger things with higher expense privileges.
I have been assured that the next project I get I will be paid a
higher wage as they are aware, that I did take quite a hit;
considering the amount of work I have actually put into this
project vs the amount I am being paid.
My business relationship, at least in the meanwhile seams fine; I
just hope it stays that way.
I am going to get back to focusing on delivering what they want,
and hopefully once I deliver they will pass me some work that
gives me experience doing what I love... flash baby. Don't get me
wrong I love doing DB admin work, as I can get all logical and zen
like while doing it; yet, I am really into user interface design
on higher end applications, not just basic html layouts and data
pulls for really basic CRM systems; yet, if it will pay the bills
I am willing to do it.
Anthony Pace
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
I was the lucky joe that got to go:
http://www.actionscript.org/resources/articles/761/1/Day-1-at-FITC-Toronto-2008/Page1.html
Merrill, Jason wrote:
Yeah, I think you just have to go point by point and politely and
diplomatically explain why the project is being delayed, and give
lots of specific examples. When you are done, ask HIM, how we
(meaning you and him) can work towards the best solution. Always
be respectful and polite - if you explain your situation well,
they should try and work with you to a compromise solution. He
should respect you even more if you do it right.
Jason Merrill
Bank of America GCIB & Staff Support L&LD
Instructional Technology & Media Join the Bank of America Flash
Platform Developer Community Are you a Bank of America associate
interested in innovative learning ideas and technologies?
Check out our internal Innovative Learning Blog & subscribe.
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of
Anthony Pace
Sent: Saturday, October 18, 2008 6:21 PM
To: Flash Coders List
Subject: Re: [Flashcoders] job hell
Hello All,
The messed up thing is the guy I work for is a nice guy; yet, the
guy he works for, is putting a great deal of pressure on him to
deliver, and it is being passed on to me. I am a little behind
schedule, several days, because of a few factors that I couldn't
control, my hosting company/testing server not allowing certain
types of DB calls at first because they thought I was some kind
of hacker messing with a space that hadn't been touched in a
year(school), requests not being sent back properly, my condo
organization telling me to move in ASAP or be fined(shouldn't be
his concern; I know), and something I did (rely on spry to work
in IE7... yeah... right.. dumb move); yet, I believe that
considering I am taking a hit on this project and they know it,
maybe they might be willing to give me some leeway. I have also
been apologetic for issues that weren't my fault, so maybe he is
starting to believe that I am at fault for everything?
It is not my fault that my client didn't get the okay from is
client to develop until the end of last month, when that was
supposed to be the date it was done; yet, at the same time, I do
understand the urgency on both their ends, and I don't want to
come off as an disinterested in their plight.
How do I tell this guy and his client to appreciate my work and
effort, without pissing him off? I want to retain this guy as
sales asset in an SOA application strategy of mine, not to
mention I think he is a cool guy, but he really is pressuring me,
and now he is not answering my calls. What if I need him to test
something remotely? A bit unprofessional; yet, I understand it
may be due to frustration. He has also changed the language he
uses when e-mailing me; such as, instead of wrap this "one" up,
he has started to correct himself and state wrap this "on" up.
If you have any suggestions on how I may retain this client
please help. This project has made me realize that, although I
have had clients before, I really am newbie when it comes to
working on my own outside of teams, and I am not quite sure how
to handle situations like this.
Thanks,
Anthony
Anthony Pace wrote:
Hello to the people that responded, especially Glen Pike,
Thanks for the responses; yet, this project is actually ajax (or
AJAJ, a redundancy I know, considering I am really using Script
source renewal) not flash, and I know how, actually I am very
well versed, in loading data from external sources of any
protocol with flash if in the same domain and sandbox; yet, I am
kind of trying to make xss my friend here; as well, I am also
pretty well versed in using XSS exploits on pages too, in case
anyone needs a quick pen test of their forums and user
submission forms for $80.00 to $100.00 bucks, and for an
additional $100.00 I will help you fix it. (sorry for the plug)
I know, I know, evil ajax taking over the flashcoders list; yet,
I figured you guys would know of ways to bypass the CDP (cross
domain policy) nonsense, and thus help me with my concern as
well. I just wanted to know if there were better ways to do
this, and if it had been done better a thousand times before I
attempted it using my xss hackish way.
Regarding the JOB... I totally took a hit in my opinion, and I
am glad to have it confirmed. I am the eternal student trying
to save dollars to go back to school, and that is why I offered
my services at a lower rate.
Actually right now, I am okay with the system I have, as it
returns data very well, and below I have outlined how it works
with flash too, and has, after about 15 min of testing, allowed
me to bypass the whole CDP nonsense. Feelings on CDP... if I am
a hacker and I want your data, then I am not going to use the
browser or flash to get it, I am going to use all kinds of leach
programs available; therefore, I ask why make it difficult for
honest developers?
1. *flash*
calls js function reloadScript(id,srcURL)
2. *js*
reloads script id="toBeReloaded" innerHTML content
3. *script id="toBeReloaded"*
after innerHTML is updated, (php loops to create a JS
array)unlimited amount of call back functions occur;
one of
which being loaded(option); yet, if you listen to the DOM,
callback is not required and the content returned can be
anything... annnnnnneeeeeeeethaaaaaaaannng flushed
binary
MP3,IMG,SOUND,VIDEO, STREAMING data... wink wink ;o)
4. *loaded(option)*
if(option==1){call flash function to update data table
with a
new array being passed}
I also figured out how to make this load sound and video data
from any source, bypassing CDP BS, and have as3 import that data
as it flushes in, and use it as display content; after this
project is over, I am going to have fun hacking with this.
For now back to this god awful project; which, wouldn't be so
god awful if the client of my client wasn't being so up tight
about the time frame.
Anthony Pace
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
I was the lucky joe that got to go:
http://www.actionscript.org/resources/articles/761/1/Day-1-at-FITC-Toronto-2008/Page1.html
Glen Pike wrote:
Hi,
Loading data remotely, there are lots of options, but if you
already have a working system, I would stick to it for this
project.
From the sound of things, you are loading HTML into Flash.
If you are cunning, you may be able to ensure that the HTML is
XHTML and then it may be possible to change the back end of the
system a bit later on. The other thing is that the "data not
being returned" thing sounds like a server side problem - with
your back end, if your Flash calls a url, e.g. "getdata.php".
Make sure that getdata.php outputs nicely to your browser
first, then you can be sure the script is not broken and check
your Flash & fix any problems there. If your hosting is
rubbish and you get 404 or other errors sometimes, then I would
change hosting.
For future reference on Flash-server side comm's - look at:
XML, which means you can load stuff from anywhere, cross
platform, etc. The downside is that XML code is usually
"bloated" and for mobile devices, possibly too memory heavy.
The upside is that with AS3 it is really easy to parse and
manipulate. XML can work from files, webservices, etc... so is
a good choice if you are not sure what system your code is
going to be deployed on and the back end people are somewhere
else...
AMF Remoting - AMF is a binary format and you need server
side code to handle the calls. The good news is that there are
loads of projects which implement this in various languages -
PHP, .NET, Java, CF, etc. - google AMF remoting and look on
the Adobe Devnet site for info... The advantage is that the
data is binary so uses less bandwidth than XML, but the
learning curve is a bit steeper and it is sometimes fiddly to
set up an AMF "connection", because something does not work and
it takes a while to figure out the first time until you learn
the tricks.
Aral Balkan was doing a really nice system called SWX which
used a combination of AMF remoting and some code on top which
made it lots easier to load date. This was working for AS2,
but still undeveloped for AS3, so you are possibly a bit stuck
if you need the latter - swxformat.org
As for hating the project - yeah, I know that feeling. You
may have to take a hit on this one. Personally, I would be
charging more than $1000 for 50 hours work, but then your rate
may also depend on your experience - for projects that entail
some learning, I may discount it quite a bit, so $1000 may be
reasonable. At the end of the day, if the job pays your bills,
then you are doing okay, if you get more, then lovely, but
remember, you said you loved coding, which is sometimes
frustrating when clients get involved.
My suggestion here would be to invoke the "iron triangle"
rule - this article leads into it nicely:
http://www.codeodor.com/index.cfm/2008/3/31/Top-6-Non-monetary-Features-I-Want-In-An-Employer/2091
Basically you need to be firm with your "employer", your
project has "features", "deadline" and "cost" - the employer
does not get to control all three, you may need to politely
remind them about this. Having worked with them, you may need
to tread carefully doing this, but in the long run, if you can
do this, your relationship with clients will be better.
Sometimes, you get crap clients though, so bear this in mind -
it's not always your fault :)
Here is a useful article about how to work out your hourly
rate: http://www.blueflavor.com/blog/2006/apr/25/pricing-project/
Sorry, this turned into a bit of an essay, but keep your
chin up and put the crap bits down to experience after you
finish the project :)
Glen
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