Like everytime - a communication problem. Sometimes a developer is not
capable of explaining all that stuff to a client because he stucks in
details a
client should not be confronted with - then he needs a middle man.
Sometimes the middle man itself has to less ideas what development
means so he uses the wrong communication tools, too - what the client
is concerned.
Next time you should communicate at an earlier stage that you gonna
work your ass off to make that work a good one. Its weird to have a client
complain about things that are actually good for him. How does it come?
Communication problem!
Ultimately I think the client just feels passed over in the decision
process.
Thats why he is not satisfied with a better version of his website.
Anthony Pace schrieb:
Hi again,
My client is saying his client is going to back out of the deal now if
he doesn't get all of his revisions to the interface by the weekend;
not a difficult request, but I will never work for my client again.
You need paper between you and your client, and if you don't get that
paper, it is not the developer's fault.
Who takes on a project from a client without getting papers signed?
For goodness sake get a contract online at the very least and have it
signed; yet, then again, I didn't with my middle man, who is turning
out to not to be a really good middle man after all. I need a middle
man that will make it so I don't have to talk to the client at all
unless it is about design and interface/work flow choices.
My middle man says he will pay me, but what an idiot for taking on a
client like that. If his client backs out and he is out of pocket,
should I make him pay? I feel bad for this guy, but I did a lot of
work giving them an AJAJ system when they just wanted stale html;
another area I made a mistake, because I wanted a portfolio piece.
I should have just given them what they wanted, because now my middle
man's client thinks what I gave him is what I usually give clients for
the same price. I will never give a client more than what they asked
for again.
Learning the hard way,
Anthony Pace
Anthony Pace wrote:
Hello all,
Thank you to those that responded,
I was able to get in touch with both my client and my client's
client, and after a little bit of discussion as to what was required
in the work flow, I can say I am comfortable with them again. At
first I thought that they were being insensitive to my situation;
yet, I realized they too were under a great deal of stress to make
this project happen, as this is a gateway project to bigger things
with higher expense privileges.
I have been assured that the next project I get I will be paid a
higher wage as they are aware, that I did take quite a hit;
considering the amount of work I have actually put into this project
vs the amount I am being paid.
My business relationship, at least in the meanwhile seams fine; I
just hope it stays that way.
I am going to get back to focusing on delivering what they want, and
hopefully once I deliver they will pass me some work that gives me
experience doing what I love... flash baby. Don't get me wrong I
love doing DB admin work, as I can get all logical and zen like while
doing it; yet, I am really into user interface design on higher end
applications, not just basic html layouts and data pulls for really
basic CRM systems; yet, if it will pay the bills I am willing to do it.
Anthony Pace
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
I was the lucky joe that got to go:
http://www.actionscript.org/resources/articles/761/1/Day-1-at-FITC-Toronto-2008/Page1.html
Merrill, Jason wrote:
Yeah, I think you just have to go point by point and politely and
diplomatically explain why the project is being delayed, and give
lots of specific examples. When you are done, ask HIM, how we
(meaning you and him) can work towards the best solution. Always be
respectful and polite - if you explain your situation well, they
should try and work with you to a compromise solution. He should
respect you even more if you do it right.
Jason Merrill
Bank of America GCIB & Staff Support L&LD
Instructional Technology & Media Join the Bank of America Flash
Platform Developer Community Are you a Bank of America associate
interested in innovative learning ideas and technologies?
Check out our internal Innovative Learning Blog & subscribe.
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of
Anthony Pace
Sent: Saturday, October 18, 2008 6:21 PM
To: Flash Coders List
Subject: Re: [Flashcoders] job hell
Hello All,
The messed up thing is the guy I work for is a nice guy; yet, the
guy he works for, is putting a great deal of pressure on him to
deliver, and it is being passed on to me. I am a little behind
schedule, several days, because of a few factors that I couldn't
control, my hosting company/testing server not allowing certain
types of DB calls at first because they thought I was some kind of
hacker messing with a space that hadn't been touched in a
year(school), requests not being sent back properly, my condo
organization telling me to move in ASAP or be fined(shouldn't be his
concern; I know), and something I did (rely on spry to work in
IE7... yeah... right.. dumb move); yet, I believe that considering I
am taking a hit on this project and they know it, maybe they might
be willing to give me some leeway. I have also been apologetic for
issues that weren't my fault, so maybe he is starting to believe
that I am at fault for everything?
It is not my fault that my client didn't get the okay from is client
to develop until the end of last month, when that was supposed to be
the date it was done; yet, at the same time, I do understand the
urgency on both their ends, and I don't want to come off as an
disinterested in their plight.
How do I tell this guy and his client to appreciate my work and
effort, without pissing him off? I want to retain this guy as sales
asset in an SOA application strategy of mine, not to mention I think
he is a cool guy, but he really is pressuring me, and now he is not
answering my calls. What if I need him to test something remotely?
A bit unprofessional; yet, I understand it may be due to
frustration. He has also changed the language he uses when e-mailing
me; such as, instead of wrap this "one" up, he has started to
correct himself and state wrap this "on" up.
If you have any suggestions on how I may retain this client please
help. This project has made me realize that, although I have had
clients before, I really am newbie when it comes to working on my
own outside of teams, and I am not quite sure how to handle
situations like this.
Thanks,
Anthony
Anthony Pace wrote:
Hello to the people that responded, especially Glen Pike,
Thanks for the responses; yet, this project is actually ajax (or
AJAJ, a redundancy I know, considering I am really using Script
source renewal) not flash, and I know how, actually I am very well
versed, in loading data from external sources of any protocol with
flash if in the same domain and sandbox; yet, I am kind of trying
to make xss my friend here; as well, I am also pretty well versed
in using XSS exploits on pages too, in case anyone needs a quick
pen test of their forums and user submission forms for $80.00 to
$100.00 bucks, and for an additional $100.00 I will help you fix
it. (sorry for the plug)
I know, I know, evil ajax taking over the flashcoders list; yet, I
figured you guys would know of ways to bypass the CDP (cross domain
policy) nonsense, and thus help me with my concern as well. I just
wanted to know if there were better ways to do this, and if it had
been done better a thousand times before I attempted it using my
xss hackish way.
Regarding the JOB... I totally took a hit in my opinion, and I am
glad to have it confirmed. I am the eternal student trying to save
dollars to go back to school, and that is why I offered my services
at a lower rate.
Actually right now, I am okay with the system I have, as it returns
data very well, and below I have outlined how it works with flash
too, and has, after about 15 min of testing, allowed me to bypass
the whole CDP nonsense. Feelings on CDP... if I am a hacker and I
want your data, then I am not going to use the browser or flash to
get it, I am going to use all kinds of leach programs available;
therefore, I ask why make it difficult for honest developers?
1. *flash*
calls js function reloadScript(id,srcURL)
2. *js*
reloads script id="toBeReloaded" innerHTML content
3. *script id="toBeReloaded"*
after innerHTML is updated, (php loops to create a JS
array)unlimited amount of call back functions occur; one of
which being loaded(option); yet, if you listen to the DOM,
callback is not required and the content returned can be
anything... annnnnnneeeeeeeethaaaaaaaannng flushed binary
MP3,IMG,SOUND,VIDEO, STREAMING data... wink wink ;o)
4. *loaded(option)*
if(option==1){call flash function to update data table with a
new array being passed}
I also figured out how to make this load sound and video data from
any source, bypassing CDP BS, and have as3 import that data as it
flushes in, and use it as display content; after this project is
over, I am going to have fun hacking with this.
For now back to this god awful project; which, wouldn't be so god
awful if the client of my client wasn't being so up tight about the
time frame.
Anthony Pace
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
I was the lucky joe that got to go:
http://www.actionscript.org/resources/articles/761/1/Day-1-at-FITC-Toronto-2008/Page1.html
Glen Pike wrote:
Hi,
Loading data remotely, there are lots of options, but if you
already have a working system, I would stick to it for this project.
From the sound of things, you are loading HTML into Flash. If
you are cunning, you may be able to ensure that the HTML is XHTML
and then it may be possible to change the back end of the system a
bit later on. The other thing is that the "data not being
returned" thing sounds like a server side problem - with your back
end, if your Flash calls a url, e.g. "getdata.php". Make sure
that getdata.php outputs nicely to your browser first, then you
can be sure the script is not broken and check your Flash & fix
any problems there. If your hosting is rubbish and you get 404 or
other errors sometimes, then I would change hosting.
For future reference on Flash-server side comm's - look at:
XML, which means you can load stuff from anywhere, cross
platform, etc. The downside is that XML code is usually "bloated"
and for mobile devices, possibly too memory heavy. The upside is
that with AS3 it is really easy to parse and manipulate. XML can
work from files, webservices, etc... so is a good choice if you
are not sure what system your code is going to be deployed on and
the back end people are somewhere else...
AMF Remoting - AMF is a binary format and you need server
side code to handle the calls. The good news is that there are
loads of projects which implement this in various languages - PHP,
.NET, Java, CF, etc. - google AMF remoting and look on the Adobe
Devnet site for info... The advantage is that the data is binary
so uses less bandwidth than XML, but the learning curve is a bit
steeper and it is sometimes fiddly to set up an AMF "connection",
because something does not work and it takes a while to figure out
the first time until you learn the tricks.
Aral Balkan was doing a really nice system called SWX which
used a combination of AMF remoting and some code on top which made
it lots easier to load date. This was working for AS2, but still
undeveloped for AS3, so you are possibly a bit stuck if you need
the latter - swxformat.org
As for hating the project - yeah, I know that feeling. You may
have to take a hit on this one. Personally, I would be charging
more than $1000 for 50 hours work, but then your rate may also
depend on your experience - for projects that entail some
learning, I may discount it quite a bit, so $1000 may be
reasonable. At the end of the day, if the job pays your bills,
then you are doing okay, if you get more, then lovely, but
remember, you said you loved coding, which is sometimes
frustrating when clients get involved.
My suggestion here would be to invoke the "iron triangle" rule
- this article leads into it nicely:
http://www.codeodor.com/index.cfm/2008/3/31/Top-6-Non-monetary-Features-I-Want-In-An-Employer/2091
Basically you need to be firm with your "employer", your
project has "features", "deadline" and "cost" - the employer does
not get to control all three, you may need to politely remind them
about this. Having worked with them, you may need to tread
carefully doing this, but in the long run, if you can do this,
your relationship with clients will be better. Sometimes, you get
crap clients though, so bear this in mind - it's not always your
fault :)
Here is a useful article about how to work out your hourly
rate: http://www.blueflavor.com/blog/2006/apr/25/pricing-project/
Sorry, this turned into a bit of an essay, but keep your chin
up and put the crap bits down to experience after you finish the
project :)
Glen
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