Great Rick, . You even corrected the typo!... now that's called synchrony. Glad to see SAP is on this track, I will bet hard on you guys.
I agree I was a little too hard on Flex, I was just trying to cut the I-love-flex bias from the conversation... After all, this is flexcoders ;) And for the server side of Flex... watch out for Spark (which could sometime provide robust connectivity services) and some yet-to-come opensource xml compiler ( which could even be a client side interpreter, with some limitations, but still). BTW, I had built a client side XML interpreter + databinding framework some years ago. It has some limitations though... sure the Flex team stumbled upon them already, and went for the server side compiler. Anyway, I already have some ideas to work around some of them. Bottomline, I can tell you from experience that the only really scary part in rebuilding flex is the component architecture, and getting it right... BUT, if Grant Skinner could make his own framework, then an OSFlex is, well, probable. Best Regards, Aldo On 8/1/05, Rick Bullotta <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > Hi, Aldo! > > > > I would certainly view Flex as more than a "browser built in Flash" – it is > server-side generated Flash. Quite a different architecture, of course > Also, I wouldn't say that Flex deals with "enterprise development workflow", > per se. Just a piece of the puzzle. > > > > While Flash is the important piece, Flash player makes MM very little direct > money. Don't discount Flex and its future companions (app builders, other > back end information delivery products, etc.) as insignificant. They are > very significant! > > > > Having just been acquired by SAP, I'm currently involved in conceptualizing > solutions for the manufacturing vertical to deliver on exactly what you > described below: > > > > <<Perhaps an integrated presentation ( flex ) + presence + BPM + ESB + > collab + management...?>> > > > > I totally share that vision and think we're getting really close…stay tuned! > Try to make it to SAP TechEd this year in Vienna or Boston… > > > > - Rick > > > > > > ________________________________ > > > From: flexcoders@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On > Behalf Of Aldo Bucchi > Sent: Monday, August 01, 2005 3:59 PM > To: flexcoders@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [flexcoders] Hope all is watching the Avalon space.. > > > > Hi guys, > > > I believe you are missing the macro perspective here. > > Don't give Flex that much importance in the long term. > After all it is just a browser built into Flash, with a set of tools > to allow an enterprise development workflow. > It won't be long till an opensource alternative pops up... it's just a > matter of time till the osflash community develops the pieces and > someone puts them together. No rocket science. > > Moreover, anyone with enough money to get Flex is, most of the times, > developing for an intranet where there is full control over the client > runtime and they would happily switch to a less expensive alternative, > or to one that fits nicer into the workflow, even if they have to give > up some eye candy or functionality. Eventually Avalon and other techs > will be better practical alternatives for an important majority. > > The important piece here is the Flash player and it's impressive > features, all bundled into one tiny download: > > - ubiquity ( 9_% ) > - consistency across platforms ( including mobile ) > - rich scripting language ( AS2 + E4X = reuse, best practices, > productivity++ ) > - multimedia > - streaming, web presence ( flash comm ) > > I believe it is the sum of these that will be hard to beat... this is > MM's strong card. > > Don't take me wrong, I believe Flex is a wonderful tech, and I enjoy > developing with it and having my customers praise me for free... a > paradigm shifter. But let's not loose objectivity. > > It's like talking about Swing, when the important piece is the JVM. > > So, Flex is happening today... helping Flash gain some respect in the > enterprise arena ( and MM make tons of money ), but old good Flash > will eventually live on, on it's own, and will evolve as requirements > grow. Unless MM pulls some licence trickery that changes the landscape > in the short term, of course. Who knows. > > OTOH, I believe MM has done marvels with in making Flex hard to beat, > and I hope some more power come out of merging flex with the rest of > the family. > Perhaps an integrated presentation ( flex ) + presence + BMP + ESB + > collab + management...? > > The flash player can get that far, no doubt about it. > > BTW, I was attending a Best of SAP world tour conference the other > day, going over some new netweaver features, and I thought... > What if these guys had built all the presentation capabilities of > netweaver with flash from the beginning! They would have the ultimate > platform from head to toes, from desktop to mobile, with very little > tradeoffs. > The important thing to understand here is that the SOA trend is > quickly pushing more and more functonality to layers that are strongly > related to presentation: collab, presence, information pushing, drag > and relate, high level BUS entry points, etc. > Thus a robust solution on this end would enhance any platform > dramatically ( this wasn't true some time ago ). > Online presence, streaming and collab are just too real and too > powerful to overlook nowadays. > > The same goes for Bea, oracle, etc. > > Team up, Macromedia! > > well, that was a getting too OT. > Back to work. > > Best, > Aldo > > On 8/1/05, Darron J. Schall <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Rick Bullotta wrote: > > > > >I also wouldn't be at all surprised to see a Flex client based on the > Java plug-in someday. When looking at the Flex class models, it has a lot > of similarities to Java rich client stuff - so who knows - maybe the Flash > viewer someday becomes classes deployed on a JVM! > > > > > > > > I'd actually be *very* surprised to see this. There was a Flash Player > > written in Java a long time ago that supported swf version 2. It was > > horrendously slow, and therefore abandoned. Granted Java has made some > > performance improvements since then, but how does moving from the Flash > > Player to the JVM help at all? > > > > Flash is already available on a ton of devices, and Java's "write once > > run anywhere" mantra didn't pan out as much as Sun wanted it to > > especially in the mobile space. Flash is more portable in it's current > > codebase then it would be as a Java application, and it also runs faster > > as native code anyway. I don't see any reason why MM would want to > > invest the time in a Flash Player that runs on top of the JVM since it > > doesn't buy them performance or portability, but rather just a new > > series of headaches. > > > > -d > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > Flexcoders Mailing List > > FAQ: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/flexcoders/files/flexcodersFAQ.txt > > Search Archives: > http://www.mail-archive.com/flexcoders%40yahoogroups.com > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > ::::: Aldo Bucchi ::::: > mobile (56) 8 429 8300 > > > > -- > Flexcoders Mailing List > FAQ: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/flexcoders/files/flexcodersFAQ.txt > Search Archives: > http://www.mail-archive.com/flexcoders%40yahoogroups.com > > > > ________________________________ > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS > > > Visit your group "flexcoders" on the web. > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! 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