Marty, I agree that the released versions of DDUtil, VAC, etc. are not experimental when running on SUPPORTED operating systems. However, if one is trying to run them on currently unsupported operating systems, they would then be properly characterized as experimental.
Gerald Gerald Youngblood, K5SDR President FlexRadio Systems 13091 Pond Springs Rd. #250 Austin, TX 78729 Phone: 512-535-4713 www.flex-radio.com "Tune in excitement!" (TM) -----Original Message----- From: flexradio-boun...@flex-radio.biz [mailto:flexradio-boun...@flex-radio.biz] On Behalf Of brahman...@aol.com Sent: Saturday, June 20, 2009 7:25 AM To: j...@3kitty.org; flexradio@flex-radio.biz Subject: Re: [Flexradio] All using SVN 3166 or higher That would really be misleading to potential customers. Ddutil, VAC usage as "experimental"? When I bought the Flex I was really surprised to find all of the contortions necessary to make it perform the digital modes. 73, Marty In a message dated 6/19/2009 9:48:29 P.M. Central Daylight Time, j...@3kitty.org writes: Splitting the discussions is a great idea. I suggest that the Experimental Group be defined to include *any* unreleased and/or unsupported software or hardware - not just the SVN-managed code. For example, discussions of PowerSDR issues that use Windows 7 beta, even with the current released PowerSDR, can also be very misleading about the stability and ease of use of the straight everything-released configurations. If you're not computer savvy enough to know what Windows 7 is, and remember its beta status at the time a particular message was written, you could easily get the wrong impression -- even many months later while searching the forum archives after Windows 7 is released. Same with the use of unsupported, but released, OSes. It may work on Windows 7 or Mac OS or Linux/Wine, but they're not in the "PowerSDR Operating System Compatibility Statement", so they should be classed Experimental. The "Flex Radio" is a combination of the Flex-xxxx hardware, the PowerSDR software, the PC OS, and any other components (like VAC, ddutil, etc.) If any of these are not released and supported versions, I think any discussion of that configuration should be categorized as experimental. IMHO, the "Experimental Group" isn't a group of *people*. It's a group of all *system configurations* that contain any unreleased or unsupported components. /Jack K3FIV On Fri, 2009-06-19 at 08:54 -0500, Gerald Youngblood wrote: > Membership in the "Experimental Group" will be open to all FlexRadio > customers who are willing to follow the rules associated with the privilege. > We reserve the right to restrict access to certain highly experimental SVN > branches until they are stable enough for testing outside the developer > group itself. One important rule that comes with the privilege: Do not > expect technical support from FlexRadio when running any software other than > the then current Official Release. > > Let me note that virtually all public and private comments on this topic > have been extremely supportive of making the split in the reflector. We > will put a lot of thought into how we proceed before we pull the trigger on > the change. > > 73, > Gerald > > Gerald Youngblood, K5SDR > President > FlexRadio Systems > 13091 Pond Springs Rd. #250 > Austin, TX 78729 > Phone: 512-535-4713 > www.flex-radio.com > > "Tune in excitement!" (TM) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Howard S. White [mailto:drpa...@kleega.com] > Sent: Thursday, June 18, 2009 6:25 PM > To: ger...@flex-radio.com; mnar...@comcast.net; Dave Gomberg > Cc: flexradio@flex-radio.biz > Subject: RE: [Flexradio] All using SVN 3166 or higher > > I do agree that for marketing purposes you need to separate the Support > Reflector from the Experimental Group. > > There are a lot of people who do not understand the difference between > Support and Experimentaion and it is pretty obvious that your > competitors are pointing to the bugs incurred in Experimentation as > being symptomatic of product defects. > > Please do not limit membership to the Experimental Group. > > A lot of people lurk in the background reading the issues about the > latest developments and occasionally we may actually have something > useful to contribute. > > By restricting membership in the Experimental Group, you will be > cutting yourself off from a very valuable resource and ultimately > slowing your developmental progress. > > So please do not cut your nose off to spite your face. > > __________________________________________________________ > Howard S. White Ph.D. P. Eng., VE3GFW/K6 ex-AE6SM KY6LA > Website: www.ky6la.com > "No Good Deed Goes Unpunished" > "Ham Antennas Save Lives - Katrina, 2003 & 2007 San Diego Fires, 911" > > > -----Original Message----- > From: flexradio-boun...@flex-radio.biz > [mailto:flexradio-boun...@flex-radio.biz] On Behalf Of Gerald Youngblood > Sent: Thursday, June 18, 2009 1:50 PM > To: mnar...@comcast.net; 'Dave Gomberg' > Cc: flexradio@flex-radio.biz > Subject: Re: [Flexradio] All using SVN 3166 or higher > > Mike, > > I am sure we can find a happy medium that meets the interests of both > groups. We will put a lot of thought into it, taking into account all > of the comments we are getting on the subject. Foremost, there needs to > be some qualification of who fits in which group and where they > communicate. I also agree that it should be called, > "experimental/prototype." > > Regards, > Gerald > > Gerald Youngblood, K5SDR > President > FlexRadio Systems > 13091 Pond Springs Rd. #250 > Austin, TX 78729 > Phone: 512-535-4713 > www.flex-radio.com > > "Tune in excitement!" (TM) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: flexradio-boun...@flex-radio.biz > [mailto:flexradio-boun...@flex-radio.biz] On Behalf Of Mike Naruta > Sent: Thursday, June 18, 2009 3:21 PM > To: Dave Gomberg > Cc: flexradio@flex-radio.biz > Subject: Re: [Flexradio] All using SVN 3166 or higher > > > That sort of models the modern amateur radio transceiver manufacturers. > You may get an upgrade infrequently, after it has been tested many > times. We are familiar with that process. > > > One group of hams are attracted to the > Flex-Radio products because of the > performance and features. > > Another group enjoys the dynamics of a > Software-Defined Radio and thrives on the improvements and new features. > > Do we limit the second group's access > to placate the first group's fears of a > software problem? Had the development > been closed, we would have missed the > excellent contributions from those not > in the original developer group. > > What if instead of talking about SVN or > alpha versions, we called it experimental or prototype versions? It > implies the possibility of problems and the unsupported nature of the > software. A kind word off- reflector to those who talk about issues > with the experimental versions here should be adequate. > > > Mike - AA8K > > > Dave Gomberg wrote: > > > > > IBM developed this fork in the 1970's when an operating system might > > support thousands of concurrent users on one CPU and cost millions per > > > day to be down (like the principal Merril-Lynch machine that did about > > > 40% of the NYSEs volume). > > > > Development started out experimentally, when the developer was sure it > > > was right, he ran it on his own work machine in production. When he > > survived, he ran it on a machine shared with a few development > > buddies. When it passed that test, it ran on a shared machine for > the > > whole development lab, in a version that might contain several changes > > > all slotted for the same release schedule. > > > > When it was believed stable, it was shipped to the research labs for > > use in their environments (this was called alpha testing, since it was > the > > first non-development test). When it passed alpha test, it was > > released to volunteer real users in the real world (this was called > beta > > test, nobody risked big money on a beta test). Beta testers got > direct > > to level 3 support so that problems could be quickly described and > > resolved. > > > > Finally a "general availability" release was announced, prepared, and > > > delivered (in that order). Usually 60% of installations were on the > > latest release, 30% one release back, and sprinklings of others (who > > got tired of hearing that the fix to their problem was to upgrade). > > > > _______________________________________________ > FlexRadio Systems Mailing List > FlexRadio@flex-radio.biz > http://mail.flex-radio.biz/mailman/listinfo/flexradio_flex-radio.biz > Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexradio%40flex-radio.biz/ > Knowledge Base: http://kc.flex-radio.com/ Homepage: > http://www.flex-radio.com/ > > > _______________________________________________ > FlexRadio Systems Mailing List > FlexRadio@flex-radio.biz > http://mail.flex-radio.biz/mailman/listinfo/flexradio_flex-radio.biz > Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexradio%40flex-radio.biz/ > Knowledge Base: http://kc.flex-radio.com/ Homepage: > http://www.flex-radio.com/ > > > _______________________________________________ > FlexRadio Systems Mailing List > FlexRadio@flex-radio.biz > http://mail.flex-radio.biz/mailman/listinfo/flexradio_flex-radio.biz > Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexradio%40flex-radio.biz/ > Knowledge Base: http://kc.flex-radio.com/ Homepage: http://www.flex-radio.com/ > _______________________________________________ FlexRadio Systems Mailing List FlexRadio@flex-radio.biz http://mail.flex-radio.biz/mailman/listinfo/flexradio_flex-radio.biz Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexradio%40flex-radio.biz/ Knowledge Base: http://kc.flex-radio.com/ Homepage: http://www.flex-radio.com/ **************A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy steps! (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1222585064x1201462784/aol?redir=htt p://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072&hmpgID=62&bcd= JunestepsfooterNO62) _______________________________________________ FlexRadio Systems Mailing List FlexRadio@flex-radio.biz http://mail.flex-radio.biz/mailman/listinfo/flexradio_flex-radio.biz Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexradio%40flex-radio.biz/ Knowledge Base: http://kc.flex-radio.com/ Homepage: http://www.flex-radio.com/ _______________________________________________ FlexRadio Systems Mailing List FlexRadio@flex-radio.biz http://mail.flex-radio.biz/mailman/listinfo/flexradio_flex-radio.biz Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexradio%40flex-radio.biz/ Knowledge Base: http://kc.flex-radio.com/ Homepage: http://www.flex-radio.com/
