Dear Alistair, Let me add my voice to that of Lydia in urging you to reconsider leaving this list, to which you have contributed so much over the years.
As Lydia notes, no one owns this list or defines its content. Nothing in the discussion about Rwanda should be taken otherwise. The slightly throw-away comment about little debate at the end of my last email was simply intended to note that while a broader assessment is valuable, we cannot always wait for this before we debate (in fact, mostly we don't). Toby > I agree. Unfortunately this view about the need for a "holistic" approach > is not consistent with what is becoming an orthodoxy regarding the > appropriate way of assessing progress toward freedom of information. I > regret that I cannot agree with Toby's view that "we would have very > little debate on this list if we were to apply [the broader] approach" to > every country. On the contrary, we would probably have more discussion, > and it might be more directly relevant to the substantive goal of > improving transparency. What we would not have, by contrast, is a > universally accepted way of defining indicators of progress that can be > used by FOI advocates and funding agencies. > > Of course the list-owners have the right to define the scope of discussion > as they wish. However I would like to unsubscribe from the list. I don't > want to "keep in mind," or negotiate about, the list-owners' particular > conception of what is relevant to an FOI list. I looked at the > FOIAdvocates website this morning and could not find contact details for > the list manager. Could I ask that person to contact me directly with > information on how to unsubscribe. > > With apologies, Al Roberts > > -- > Alasdair Roberts > Rappaport Professor of Law and Public Policy > Faculty Director, Rappaport Center for Law and Public Service, > http://www.rappaportcenter.org > Co-Editor, Governance, http://www.governancejournal.net > > Suffolk University Law School > 120 Tremont Street, 210H > Boston, MA 02108-4977 > Tel +1-617-599-9029 > Skype alasdair.roberts > Email alasdair.robe...@gmail.com > Web http://www.aroberts.us > > > > On 3/15/13 3:23 AM, "Henry Maina" <he...@article19.org> wrote: > >>Hii Toby, >> >>First I must appreciate your comments and the undertaking to assess the >>Rwanda RTI law. >> >>My last comment was not that we should comment on RTI law without looking >>at the other laws but to underscore the need for a holistic understanding >>of the legal framework regulating FOE and RTI in Rwanda. Some of the >>issues raised are in some ways dealt with with the Regulating Media Law. >>I did not in any way think RTI laws stand by themselves in vacuum and >>neither should any analysis of them. >> >>Regards >> >>HENRY O. MAINA >>DIRECTOR >>ARTICLE 19 KENYA/EASTERN AFRICA >>P O BOX 2653,00100 >>NAIROBI >>TEL:+254 (20) 3862230/2 >>FAX:+254 (20) 3862231 >>EMAIL: he...@article19.org >> >>________________________________________ >>From: Toby Mendel [tobymen...@gmail.com] on behalf of Toby Mendel >>[t...@law-democracy.org] >>Sent: 15 March 2013 08:54 AM >>To: Carole Excell >>Cc: Henry Maina; Peter Noorlander; foia...@lists.foiadvocates.info >>Subject: Re: [foianet] RTI Rwanda (Henry Maina) >> >>Hi Carole, >> >>There is a difference between the laws you mention, which are explicitly >>about the subject covered by an FOI law (ie the extent to which officials >>may or may not or must release information), and the wider issue of media >>freedom. In some countries, for example, the OSA effectively defines the >>scope of some important exceptions in the FOI law, so to that extent is >>directly relevant (although this is poor practice). The laws that Henry >>refers to, on the other hand, are about regulating the media which is a >>related (ie information space) but otherwise different issue (and also >>includes public service broadcasting, broadcast regulation generally, >>community radio, etc.) >> >>Of course the wider freedom of expression context (including laws, >>practice, etc.), as well as respect for other human rights and democracy >>itself, is always relevant to FOI. This was indeed the original point >>that Peter made and which I support. My point was simply to object to >>Henry's suggestion that one should not assess or comment on the FOI law >>without also assessing the other laws. We would have very little debate >>on this list if we were to apply that approach to every country!! >> >>Toby >> >>___________________________________ >>Toby Mendel >>Executive Director >> >>Centre for Law and Democracy >>t...@law-democracy.org<mailto:t...@law-democracy.org> >>Tel: +1 902 431-3688 >>Fax: +1 902 431-3689 >>www.law-democracy.org<http://www.law-democracy.org> >> >> >> >> >>On 15 Mar 2013, at 00:47, Carole Excell wrote: >> >>Hi Henry and Toby, A little push back on the idea that it is not >>necessary to assess FOI laws within the context of other laws. I have not >>read any of these laws but there are more than often a number of laws >>which should be read in the context of a FOI to understand the legal >>framework for the right to information. No one would object speaking >>about Secrecy or Official Secret Laws in the context of FOI. In some >>countries they also speak about Whistleblower laws. I can see an argument >>in this case for also considering the media laws especially if they have >>been all bundled together as a package of laws or refer to each other . >> >>Perhaps you can clarify if this is the case for others benefit. >> >>Carole >>Mrs. Carole Excell >>Senior Associate >>The Access Initiative >>World Resources Institute >>Tel: 202-729-7901 >>Fax: +1-202-729-7759 >>cexc...@wri.org<mailto:cexc...@wri.org> >>www.accessinitiative.org<http://www.accessinitiative.org> >>www.wri.org<http://www.wri.org> >>https://twitter.com/#!/TAIGlobal >>TAI Global on Facebook >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >>-----Original Message----- >>From: >>foianet-boun...@lists.foiadvocates.info<mailto:foianet-bounces@lists.foiad >>vocates.info> [mailto:foianet-boun...@lists.foiadvocates.info] On Behalf >>Of Toby Mendel >>Sent: Thursday, March 14, 2013 10:59 AM >>To: Henry Maina >>Cc: Peter Noorlander; >>foia...@lists.foiadvocates.info<mailto:foia...@lists.foiadvocates.info> >>Subject: Re: [foianet] RTI Rwanda (Henry Maina) >> >>Hi Henry, >> >>As I noted, we will assess the new RTI law objectively; give us a bit of >>time to do an RTI Rating on it. >> >>There is no analogous system for rating the other laws, but various >>bodies have issued strong critiques of them (if you are referring to the >>ones I think you are - passed a year or more ago). They are clearly very >>repressive by any freedom of expression standard and, as Peter has >>pointed out, implementation so far has matched this. So there is no way >>they can be said to enhance freedom of expression, respect for which is, >>as observer after observer has noted, dire in Rwanda. >> >>There might be more hope for the RTI law, and for this we will indeed >>have to wait to see. >> >>Otherwise, I cannot agree with your final statement, Henry. There is no >>reason people should assess the three laws together, among other things >>because they deal with very different issues. So, listers on this list >>are encouraged to continue to comment on the RTI law on this list >>(whether or not they also wish to comment on the other laws), keeping in >>mind that this is an RTI list. >> >>Best, Toby >> >>___________________________________ >>Toby Mendel >>Executive Director >>Centre for Law and Democracy >>t...@law-democracy.org<mailto:t...@law-democracy.org> >>Tel: +1 902 431-3688 >>Fax: +1 902 431-3689 >>www.law-democracy.org<http://www.law-democracy.org> >> >> >> >> >>On 14 Mar 2013, at 03:58, Henry Maina wrote: >> >>> Dear All, >>> >>> The context of Rwanda is something A19 has quite often highlighted in >>>more than one fora. Look at our UPR submission and recommendations and >>>engagements in National Media Dialogue. We have questioned the continued >>>incarceration of journalists and Human rights defender. However, that >>>does not negate the fact that there is a new law that must be assessed >>>objectively. Toby Mendel and other FOI gurus would always tell us that >>>implementation of any law is the challenge and we already see that and >>>have pointed out what the Minister must do in his ministerial order in >>>terms of exemptions; time limit for response; and appeals. >>> >>> There are three new laws in Rwanda. The Access to Information law, the >>> law regulating media and the Media High Council law. This three laws >>> must again be assessed and a judgment call made whether the enhance >>> guarantees on freedom of expression, right to information and media >>> freedom. I would appreciate if listers would make their calls after >>> looking at the three law >>> >>> HENRY >>> >>> ________________________________________ >>> From: >>>foianet-boun...@lists.foiadvocates.info<mailto:foianet-boun...@lists.foia >>>dvocates.info> >>> >>>[foianet-boun...@lists.foiadvocates.info<mailto:foianet-boun...@lists.foi >>>advocates.info>] on behalf of Toby Mendel >>> [t...@law-democracy.org<mailto:t...@law-democracy.org>] >>> Sent: 13 March 2013 09:19 PM >>> To: Peter Noorlander >>> Cc: >>>foia...@lists.foiadvocates.info<mailto:foia...@lists.foiadvocates.info> >>> Subject: Re: [foianet] RTI Rwanda (Henry Maina) >>> >>> Seconded. Respect for freedom of expression and media freedom in Rwanda >>>is vastly problematical, to the point where it is hard to see this as >>>anything but a token gesture or worse. >>> >>> Nonetheless, we will do an RTI Rating in due course to see just how >>> good the law is :) >>> >>> Toby >>> >>> ___________________________________ >>> Toby Mendel >>> Executive Director >>> >>> Centre for Law and Democracy >>> t...@law-democracy.org<mailto:t...@law-democracy.org> >>> Tel: +1 902 431-3688 >>> Fax: +1 902 431-3689 >>> www.law-democracy.org<http://www.law-democracy.org> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> On 13 Mar 2013, at 15:08, Peter Noorlander wrote: >>> >>>> Hi Foialisters, >>>> >>>> I wish there were sufficient tolerance of critical journalism in >>>>Rwanda to really make something of this new law. Sadly there isn't. >>>> >>>> Three journalists are currently in prison, one serving three years for >>>>criticising Kagame, one serving four for somehow having undermined >>>>national security through a piece she wrote and one serving a year for >>>>advice in an agony aunt column that referred to beautiful girls >>>>"formerly referred to as Abatutsi". The case of the first two is >>>>pending before the African Commission on Human and Peoples' Rights >>>>(http://www.mediadefence.org/news-story/jailed-rwandan-journalists-appea >>>>l-african-commission). >>>> >>>> Another one has a prosecution hanging over his head for having been >>>>abducted by security services and having reported that to the police; >>>>while a radio reporter who was acquitted of the crime of genocide >>>>ideology for inadvertent use of the wrong word for 'victim' when >>>>referring to genocide has been sacked and can't find any radio work >>>>because he is on a blacklist. >>>> >>>> Over the last few years several have fled the country and one was >>>>assassinated in Uganda not long ago. >>>> >>>> How can FOI work in a climate like that? >>>> >>>> I know that it is important to get the right legal structures in place >>>>- but before you do that there needs to be a minimum level of respect >>>>for media freedom, lest the laws become box-ticking exercises to make >>>>the country look good 'on paper' so they can get World Bank money. >>>>There's got to be real political will - not just political will to >>>>adopt a law, but political will to implement that law and believe in >>>>what it means and stands for. >>>> >>>> I would argue that in Rwanda there simply isn't that minimum level of >>>>respect for media freedom, and human rights generally, for an FOI law >>>>to have any kind of impact. If there was, the journalists I refer to >>>>would not be in prison, have fled the country or been assassinated. >>>> >>>> So long as journalists are still in prison for things like criticising >>>>the president, there's absolute no point advocating for FOI. >>>> >>>> Peter >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: >>>>foianet-boun...@lists.foiadvocates.info<mailto:foianet-boun...@lists.foi >>>>advocates.info> >>>> [mailto:foianet-boun...@lists.foiadvocates.info] On Behalf Of >>>> >>>>foianet-requ...@lists.foiadvocates.info<mailto:foianet-requ...@lists.foi >>>>advocates.info> >>>> Sent: 13 March 2013 17:13 >>>> To: >>>>foia...@lists.foiadvocates.info<mailto:foia...@lists.foiadvocates.info> >>>> Subject: FOIAnet Digest, Vol 227, Issue 3 >>>> >>>> Send FOIAnet mailing list submissions to >>>> >>>>foia...@lists.foiadvocates.info<mailto:foia...@lists.foiadvocates.info> >>>> >>>> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit >>>> >>>> http://lists.foiadvocates.info/listinfo.cgi/foianet-foiadvocates.info >>>> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to >>>> >>>>foianet-requ...@lists.foiadvocates.info<mailto:foianet-requ...@lists.foi >>>>advocates.info> >>>> >>>> You can reach the person managing the list at >>>> >>>>foianet-ow...@lists.foiadvocates.info<mailto:foianet-owner@lists.foiadvo >>>>cates.info> >>>> >>>> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific >>>>than "Re: Contents of FOIAnet digest..." >>>> >>>> >>>> Today's Topics: >>>> >>>> 1. RTI Rwanda (Henry Maina) >>>> 2. Rwanda: Progressive Access to Information Law adopted >>>> (David Banisar) >>>> >>>> >>>> --------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>> - >>>> >>>> Message: 1 >>>> Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2013 11:22:48 +0000 >>>> From: Henry Maina <he...@article19.org<mailto:he...@article19.org>> >>>> To: >>>>"foia...@lists.foiadvocates.info<mailto:foia...@lists.foiadvocates.info> >>>>" >>>> >>>><foia...@lists.foiadvocates.info<mailto:foia...@lists.foiadvocates.info> >>>>> >>>> Subject: [foianet] RTI Rwanda >>>> Message-ID: >>>> >>>><1e1180dcbb6f45409d1fe1591145aa9477789...@a19mail.aricle19.org<mailto:1E >>>>1180dcbb6f45409d1fe1591145aa9477789...@a19mail.aricle19.org>> >>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >>>> >>>> Dear All, >>>> >>>> Rwanda became the 11th country in Africa to have a comprehensive Right >>>>to Information law after the was formally gazetted on 11th March 2013. >>>>The law can be found at the website of the Office of the Prime >>>>Minister, Official Gazette No 10 of 11th march 2013. >>>> >>>> http://www.primature.gov.rw/publications/pointer/0.html?tx_mmdamfilel >>>> ist_pi1[getSubFolders]=fileadmin%2Fuser_upload%2Fdocuments%2FOfficial >>>> _Gazettes%2F2013_Official_Gazettes%2F&tx_mmdamfilelist_pi1[getsubfold >>>> ers]=fileadmin%2Fuser_upload%2Fdocuments%2FOfficial_Gazettes%2F&cHash >>>> =f618e2be18df44f0a24f692d33613f21 >>>> >>>> HENRY O. MAINA >>>> DIRECTOR >>>> ARTICLE 19 KENYA/EASTERN AFRICA >>>> P O BOX 2653,00100 >>>> NAIROBI >>>> TEL:+254 (20) 3862230/2 >>>> FAX:+254 (20) 3862231 >>>> EMAIL: he...@article19.org<mailto:he...@article19.org> >>>> >>>> -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was >>>> scrubbed... >>>> Name: image001.png >>>> Type: image/png >>>> Size: 13730 bytes >>>> Desc: image001.png >>>> URL: >>>> <http://lists.foiadvocates.info/pipermail/foianet-foiadvocates.info/a >>>> ttachments/20130313/664dc9f7/attachment-0001.png> >>>> >>>> ------------------------------ >>>> >>>> Message: 2 >>>> Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2013 16:58:46 +0000 >>>> From: David Banisar >>>><bani...@article19.org<mailto:bani...@article19.org>> >>>> To: Foianet Net >>>><foianet@foiadvocates.info<mailto:foianet@foiadvocates.info>> >>>> Subject: [foianet] Rwanda: Progressive Access to Information Law >>>> adopted >>>> Message-ID: >>>><b57df5c0-8f5e-48ba-9559-c64088fb7...@article19.org<mailto:B57DF5C0-8F5E >>>>-48ba-9559-c64088fb7...@article19.org>> >>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252" >>>> >>>> Is this email not displaying correctly? View it in your browser. >>>> >>>> Rwanda: Progressive Access to Information Law adopted ARTICLE 19 >>>>welcomes a comprehensive new access to information law, which came into >>>>effect in Rwanda yesterday (11th March 2013). This is a positive step >>>>by the Rwandan Government, which must be given full effect. >>>> >>>> ?This passage of this law shows that the Rwandan government is keen to >>>>entrench transparency and accountability as well as enhancing greater >>>>participation by citizens in the management of public affairs. We are >>>>enormously proud to be associated with the spirited campaign that has >>>>championed this law? said Henry Maina, Director of ARTICLE19 Eastern >>>>Africa. >>>> >>>> ARTICLE 19 has led multi-stakeholder initiatives advocating for the >>>>enactment of this law with local groups like the Rwanda Civil Society >>>>Platform. >>>> >>>> ARTICLE 19 finds the law exemplary in terms of its scope of >>>>application. The law applies not only to public bodies but also to some >>>>private bodies, which carry out work in the public interest. There is a >>>>strong emphasis on the importance of the public interest in the right >>>>to information and we are pleased to see that this is reflected by >>>>limited fees to pay, which will cover the cost of the reproduction of >>>>papers and for postage. >>>> >>>> The law also has clear provisions on proactive disclosure and allows >>>>for all people to seek, receive and disseminate information, which is a >>>>progressive step as other laws on the continent only allow citizens >>>>this right. >>>> >>>> ARTICLE 19 notes that the law has some broad exemptions, where access >>>>to information may be restricted in relation to national security and >>>>the administration of justice and trade secrets. >>>> >>>> ARTICLE 19 now calls on the Minister of Information to speed up the >>>>consultation process on implementation guidelines will set clear time >>>>limits for the provision of information or explanations where access to >>>>such information has been denied. >>>> >>>> ?We are hopeful that the ministerial implementation guidelines >>>> together with oversight by the Office of the Ombudsman should ensure >>>> that this new law properly implemented? added Maina >>>> >>>> ARTICLE 19 recommends that all access to information applications >>>>should be addressed within 30 days. >>>> >>>> ?It is absolutely vital that the guidelines make it clear that where >>>>requests for information have not been dealt with in time or where the >>>>information requested has been denied, the person requesting that >>>>information is entitled to an appeal to the Office of Ombudsman? added >>>>Maina. >>>> >>>> ARTICLE 19 recommends that an appeal should place within 60 days. >>>> >>>> The passage of this Law makes Rwanda the 11th African country with >>>>right to information law and 94th country globally. The other African >>>>countries with comprehensive access to information laws include South >>>>Africa, Angola, Zimbabwe, Liberia, Ethiopia, Uganda, Nigeria, Niger, >>>>Guinea-Conakry and Tunisia. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Find us on Facebook Follow us on Twitter >>>> Follow our RSS feed Forward to a friend >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Friend on Facebook >>>> >>>> Follow on Twitter >>>> >>>> Forward to a Friend >>>> >>>> Our press team are ready for queries and interview requests at: >>>> T: +44 (0) 20 7324 2510 >>>> E: presst...@article19.org<mailto:presst...@article19.org> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> About ARTICLE 19 >>>> ARTICLE 19 is an independent human rights organisation that works >>>>globally to protect and promote the right to freedom of expression. It >>>>takes its name from Article 19 of the Universal Declaration of Human >>>>Rights, which guarantees free speech. >>>> follow on Twitter | friend on Facebook | forward to a friend You are >>>>receiving this email because you signed up during an event or online >>>>and requested updates on freedom of expression and information. >>>> >>>> We can be contacted at: >>>> ARTICLE 19 >>>> 60 Farringdon Road >>>> London, England EC1R 3GA >>>> United Kingdom >>>> >>>> Add us to your address book >>>> >>>> Tel: +44 20 7324 2500 >>>> Fax: +44 20 7490 0566 >>>> Email: i...@article19.org<mailto:i...@article19.org> >>>> >>>> This work is licensed under a Creative Commons >>>>Attribution-NonCommercial-ShareAlike 3.0 Unported License. >>>> >>>> ARTICLE 19, Registered Charity no. 327421, a Company Limited by >>>>Guarantee registered in England and Wales no. 2097222. >>>> >>>> -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was >>>> scrubbed... >>>> URL: >>>> <http://lists.foiadvocates.info/pipermail/foianet-foiadvocates.info/a >>>> ttachments/20130313/b5ce348e/attachment.htm> >>>> >>>> End of FOIAnet Digest, Vol 227, Issue 3 >>>> *************************************** >>>> >>> >> >> > > > ___________________________________ Toby Mendel Centre for Law and Democracy t...@law-democracy.org Tel: +1 902 431-3688 Fax: +1 902 431-3689 www.law-democracy.org
