Waldemar, I share your sentiments and am also desperately seeking an open-source development environment with the elegance and dynamism of Python yet performance much closer to C. So far, none of the available options feel quite right, and really, even the idea of being wedded to a particular syntax seems so, well, 20th century.
In truth, sometimes I want C or Java, sometimes I want Python, and sometimes I need an interative shell or a domain-specific language. >From what I understand, LOLA should eventually enable a developer to work effectively with all of the above syntax flavors (and many others) on top of a common object/execution model, without the fuss of SWIG nor the crushing weight of a JVM or CLR runtime. To me, that is the Holy Grail. After seeing Ian's inspiring talk earlier this year at Stanford (CSL/EE380), I am optimistic that this vision may be realized with LOLA, though I do still have some concerns regarding the potential for native support of thread-level concurrency (obligatory nowadays given 4-8+ core desktops). So my question to the list would be: As a workaday "consumer" of computing architectures (not CS-trained but tasked with rapid delivery of practical solutions to real-world problems), what sorts of things can and should someone like me do to help bring an archicture like this forward as soon a possible? I want it real bad, and I do see how something like this could fundamentally change the world of computing. Cheers, Warren L. DeLano, Ph.D. Author of PyMOL http://pymol.sf.net PS. Croquet/Squeak is perhaps the closest thing I have yet found to my idealized computing environment (dynamic, visual, interactive, and introspective, with everything an object, and open-source of course), but I share Waldemar's reactions regarding UI complexity, performance, and SmallTalk syntax. Impressive as it is, Croquet does not feel simple, lightweight, and practical in the same spirit as Python -- I believe in my heart that one could do better -- though I know not yet exactly how. -----Original Message----- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Waldemar Kornewald Sent: Tuesday, November 20, 2007 10:57 PM To: VPRI Fonc Subject: Re: [fonc] productivity Hi, On Nov 21, 2007 7:28 AM, Jason Johnson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Have you looked around at other programming languages because many > already do what you want. I'm not really aware what progress has been > made on the graphical programming front, but declarative languages > (e.g. Haskell) go a long way toward removing unnecessary cruft like > bounds checking. There is a great deal of information out there on > what makes programmers productive, it is only the mainstream (e.g. > C/C++/Java/Perl/etc.) that are unaware of it. Actually, I did look around for non-mainstream languages. I tried Slate (prototypes with multiple dispatch, Smalltalk-like syntax), Maude, Lisp, tried to get used to Haskell syntax (yuck!), couldn't get through Squeak (horribly complicated UI!), and in the end I didn't really find what I wanted. I want the simplicity of Python combined with more power to produce less waste. Maybe I didn't look look well enough, but none of the languages offered anything revolutionary like the capability to easily define specifications/protocols/formats (except for DSLs, like a network protocol description language). It was still hacking, just with slightly less waste. This just doesn't feel right. > I hope this project and the others like it (I seem to find more every > time I search on this subject) succeed in bringing systems programming > up to the level higher level languages have been for decades. It's > time to stop twiddling bits and start building the future. There are more of such projects? I haven't found anything as serious as this one. Bye, Waldemar Kornewald _______________________________________________ fonc mailing list [email protected] http://vpri.org/mailman/listinfo/fonc _______________________________________________ fonc mailing list [email protected] http://vpri.org/mailman/listinfo/fonc
