Paul Schmehl wrote:
Here's a hint that would help a *ton* of users. Don't try to install a
port until your ports tree is up to date. Completely up to date - as
is, run portsnap or cvs or cvsup *first*, *then* try to install your port.
I have several possible solutions (contact me privately if you want
more detail) but am purposely not stating them publically so as not to
taint the survey any more then it needs to be.
This is the part I don't get. If you have suggestions, post them. Post
the code that implements your suggestions. *Then* people can evaluate
whether or not your suggestions add value to the ports system.
Why the silly games? As I read them, this seems to be the primary
objection of all the people responding who have @freebsd.org in their
email address. They've heard it all before, but they know that actions
speak much louder than words. If you say "the implementation of foo is
flawed", and then you post code that, IYO, improves it, people with
experience and knowledge can review it and say, "Hey, nice idea" or
"sorry, your code would break ports and here's why".
Without the code, all the surveys and gesticulations in this tread
accomplish little except to irritate people.
Why the silly games? I get the feeling that Aryeh is honestly not
understanding that he's trying to change the basic way that things get
done in FreeBSD. He doesn't see that. In industry, first a decision is
made that a market exists for such and such, then a study is made as to
what could be done realistically. We don't operate that way.
What we're all afraid of, Aryeh, is that you're going to run off with
your poll of what you believe is needed (when we haven't even agreed
that anything is needed) and you'll code something up, under the
completely wrong misapprehension that if you code something up that does
what the poll results said, it would get added in, pal, that's totally,
totally false, you can ask any committer whatever, you will never get
any apriori agreement on the adding of code, no matter what, until we
can see the code. This has been endlessly argued in the past, and folks
have certainly left FreeBSD over it, but it will not change.
If you can't see that, then we will remain at loggerheads. If you can
see that, then quit asking folks to agree on stuff without showing us
code. I don't care how much research you do on what is needed, you will
never change that fact, all you're going to do is trigger knee-jerk
reactions from folks who have been *very highly* sensitized by prior
attempts to change that rule. It's not gonna happen, and you strongly
seem to be trying an end-run around it. If you honestly aren't, then
you need to do a better job of convincing folks of that fact.
That's what it all boils down to, anyone disagree, at base?
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