Hey, Roger. I lived up there near SLC for three years, right in the heart of Mormon country. I actually know quite a bit about their beliefs and practices -- both the good and the bad.
For those interested in an excellent in-depth book on the history of the Mormon religion, I recommend "Under The Banner of Heaven, A Story of Violent Faith" by Jon Krakauer. During the three years that I lived in Pocatello, ID, I met a few former Mormons who had been successfully "deprogrammed" . Many of them had interesting, and sometimes dark stories to tell about the true inner social workings of their former "faith". --Doug On Sun, Nov 9, 2008 at 1:13 PM, Roger Critchlow <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > I don't know, Doug, why don't you read this Salt Lake Tribune story about > dissent within the LDS, and tell me who's making snap decisions based on > doctrine. > > http://www.sltrib.com/lds/ci_10797630 > > -- rec -- > > > On Sun, Nov 9, 2008 at 1:06 PM, Douglas Roberts <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>wrote: > >> I don't know, Roger. The LDS indoctrination machine is one of the more >> efficient operations that exists these days. It seems to supply a fairy >> tale that is particularly beguiling to a certain type of personality. Once >> that vision of sugar plums and seven levels of heaven is planted, it seems >> nearly impossible to uproot. >> >> I'm sure they'd be happy to take your money, though. >> >> --Doug >> >> >> On Sun, Nov 9, 2008 at 12:02 PM, Roger Critchlow <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> >>> I think someone should contribute $30,000,000 to foment a schism in the >>> Church of the Latter Day Saints based on their internal conflicts on this >>> issue. >>> >>> -- rec -- >>> >>> >>> On Sun, Nov 9, 2008 at 11:00 AM, Orlando Leibovitz < >>> [EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >>> >>>> Owen, >>>> >>>> In my opinion the word marriage should not be removed. I believe that >>>> civil marriage should be available to all consenting adults. Various >>>> religions can then do as they please. If, in fact, this is a civil rights >>>> (constitutional) issue then religions that violate civil liberties should, >>>> at the least, not have 501c3 status. I try to understand but am not >>>> sympathetic to religious angst about this as I would not be if you >>>> substituted black, jew, Christian, etc for the word gay. >>>> >>>> James, I am grateful to the Quakers for many of the positions they have >>>> taken. >>>> >>>> Orlando >>>> >>>> >>>> James Steiner wrote: >>>> >>>> Consider also the relligions that have.supported and do sanctify >>>> same-sex marriages, without regard for, indeed in spite of, the legal >>>> status of such unions, e.g. the Meetings of Friends (Quakers). >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On 11/9/08, Owen Densmore <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>> On Nov 9, 2008, at 12:09 AM, Orlando Leibovitz wrote: >>>> ... >>>> >>>> >>>> In my opinion this is not a marriage issue, it is a civil rights >>>> issue. >>>> >>>> >>>> And there you have the problem in a nutshell. "Gay marriage" >>>> confounds the two. >>>> >>>> One the one hand, the word "marriage" creates considerable angst on >>>> gay issues within the various religions. The recent Anglican/Episcopal >>>> split was largely over gay marriage and gay bishops. This is a >>>> complex issue where religions have to confront difficult problems >>>> within themselves. And definitely a church/state boundary. >>>> >>>> On the other hand, gay civil rights are clear: they are being violated >>>> and the strictly civil rights have to be granted immediately. "Civil >>>> union", however, may be a distasteful term to the gay community. >>>> >>>> Most of silicon valley had to deal with this within their corporate >>>> laws. They all grant gay civil rights by now. They simply had to >>>> change the concept of "partner" and insurance, spousal rights and so >>>> on were easily solved. I don't believe religions are concerned about >>>> this solution. As far as I know, the government does not object, and >>>> even allows for joint tax filing. >>>> >>>> I wonder if the word "marriage" were taken out of the equation, would >>>> it at least help obtain civil rights for gay couples? >>>> >>>> -- Owen >>>> >>>> >>>> ============================================================ >>>> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv >>>> Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College >>>> lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org >>>> >>>> ============================================================ >>>> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv >>>> Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College >>>> lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> >>>> Orlando Leibovitz >>>> >>>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] >>>> >>>> www.orlandoleibovitz.com >>>> >>>> Studio Telephone: 505-820-6183 >>>> >>>> ============================================================ >>>> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv >>>> Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College >>>> lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org >>>> >>> >>> >>> >> >>
============================================================ FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org
