Ecology has no Contracts , no Enforcers and no Guilt nor Punishment. All are rewarded with death. Every problem is solved with death. The players or actors treat each other as threats or opportunities. There is no shared consciousness. All actions are driven by Fear, or Hunger. Ecology is a theft based system and that is in part why economics is a rationalized mess trying to hide its origins. This idealization of the Natural is a devious method of unraveling civilization to restore basic selfishness. It is Natural to be Selfish. It is unnatural to be Ethical.
Starting at the lowest level of picking fruit and having a "Bowel Movement" there are no willing participants. Ecology is made up of solipsistic entities with no awareness of a group dynamic. There are the powerful and then there are the edible. The fact that most ecological systems were relatively closed allowed for some measure of stability. When humans intrude into a stable system the new exploitation takes great adjustment before reaching stability. Native societies can survive in harmony with nature at very low population densities. There is a price to pay , high infant mortality and reduced lifespans. (No IPods). I think economic theory is uniquely human and though components appear derived from ecological principles this is minor. No other species attempts to regulate itself in opposition to selfish interests. I admit our success is questionable but the intent is definitely something uniquely Human and definitely no longer solipsistic. There is great danger in idealizing ecology as more pure than human economics. Theft and murder are intrinsic to ecology as is waste pollution and wreckless damages. The fact that any ecosystems ever stabilized is marvelous but human beings can not emulate such a system and adhere to civilized ideals. Certainly we can model ecology, but why do we imagine we have anything relevant to learn about economics? Perhaps we can better understand the consequences of our appetites but we should not idealize ecology. I worry that the transformation of the discussion towards specific terms such as demand driven or supply driven is fallacious. The solipsists will eat as much as they can until they despoil the region. Our economics should be based on enhancing life without endangering it further. If an Australian farmer needs to eradicate Mice he should do so in a manner that does not leave residual consequences. If we need to compete with rats to improve grain production in India we have the power to do so. There was no need for a Right since ecology does not dispense rights or entitlements. Rats had no regret about the destruction of the Dodo bird. If we use economics to give ourselves the supposed freedom to annihilate a species as the rat has done then it is just trickery. That trickery serves only to assuage our guilt over behaving like rats. On the other hand if we use intellect to find a moral or ethical balance that would distinguish us from every other living agent. We struggle so hard to give ourselves the right to act like rats while deluding ourselves that we are nearer to the Almighty. Ecology works because every living thing is rewarded with death. It is so Draconian that there is no point in acting responsibly or ethically. The good and the bad are treated equally. Idealizing nature should be confined to poetry and decorative arts and should not intrude upon human economics. We are as humans attempting to find a middle ground between opposing evils. Vladimyr Ivan Burachynsky Ph.D.(Civil Eng.), M.Sc.(Mech.Eng.), M.Sc.(Biology) 120-1053 Beaverhill Blvd. Winnipeg, Manitoba CANADA R2J 3R2 (204) 2548321 Phone/Fax vbur...@shaw.ca -----Original Message----- From: friam-boun...@redfish.com [mailto:friam-boun...@redfish.com] On Behalf Of Jochen Fromm Sent: October 17, 2010 4:34 PM To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Economy vs. ecology Both systems can be viewed as complex adaptive systems consisting of many interacting agents that adapt and learn from their interactions with one another: system: economic system - ecosystem agent: organism - company interaction: food webs - supply chains One major difference is perhaps what the agents do with their supply, the agents of ecosystems are more "selfish": * Organisms consume s.th. to produce more of themselves, they maintain themselves with food, and they produce stuff necessary to make more copies of themselves. Agent and product are identical. * Companies consume s.th. to produce a product which is different from themselves. Agent and product are different. On the one hand, economic systems are more complex and more differentiated than ecologic systems. Companies can consume other companies to produce larger companies and to maintain themselves, but they also generate a product which is independent from themselves. On the other hand, ecologic systems are much more sophisticated, since they are unbeatable in green technology, regenerative energy and natural recycling ;-) -J. ----- Original Message ----- From: Russ Abbott To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group Cc: Alexandre Lomovtsev ; Shuger,Debora ; Porter,Edith Sent: Sunday, October 17, 2010 6:35 AM Subject: [FRIAM] Economy vs. ecology I've been thinking about the differences between our economic system and a natural ecology. Since I'm not an expert in either I'm writing this in the hope that someone who is will clarify any issues I get wrong. It seems to me that a fundamental difference is that natural ecologies are supply-driven. By that I mean that the supply of resources (food, sunshine, etc.) is the primary determinant of how the ecology functions. (I'm not talking here about transitions when a species invades an ecology and upsets the pre-existing balance. I want to focus at least at the beginning on ecologies that have achieved a fairly stable state.) In such ecologies fairly well-defined food webs are established. These determine the sizes of the various populations, etc. Of course there are or can be cycles such as the standard predator-prey cycle. But even in these cases, the whole thing is supply driven. It's what's available (primarily to be eaten) that determines everything else. Our economic system is for the most part supply-driven. The economy is not completely detached from the need for basic energy and other natural resource supplies. If there are supply shocks in these areas, the economy will feel them. But for the most part what most people do (as economic agents) depends on whether someone is willing to pay them. That means that most people are dependent on the demand (for their services) rather than the supply (of available food). Our current economic situation illustrates that very well. We are currently demand-deficient. Not enough people want to buy enough things (or services) to keep us all employed. This seems very strange and artificial. That so much of the economy depends on demand rather than supply makes it very vulnerable to the kind of problems we face today. But as I said, our economy is not completely demand driven. We are still supply dependent. Working with others I'm hoping to build a model that illustrates where the tipping point is. When does a supply-driven ecology become a demand-dependent economy? Is it a sharp phase transition? Can it be characterized in terms of other properties? Comments are welcome. -- Russ Abbott ______________________________________ Professor, Computer Science California State University, Los Angeles Google voice: 424-242-USA0 (last character is zero) blog: http://russabbott.blogspot.com/ vita: http://sites.google.com/site/russabbott/ ______________________________________ ============================================================ FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org ============================================================ FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org ============================================================ FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org
