Oh. Steve. I would infinitely prefer to argue with a catholic about transubstantiation than with a spiritualist. N
-----Original Message----- From: friam-boun...@redfish.com [mailto:friam-boun...@redfish.com] On Behalf Of Steve Smith Sent: Sunday, April 01, 2012 10:10 PM To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group Subject: Re: [FRIAM] So, *Are* We Alone? I agree with Nick's implied rules of engagement. Gratuitous contempt and nastiness are about the only things I find hard to remedy with liberal use of my <delete> or my ability to skim an e-mail and go on (by the time I realize I want to disregard same, I have been infected by it). My father used to say: "I don't talk religion or politics with anyone... with anyone!" . I don't go that far, but I admit that once someone degenerates into proselytizing to me (actively or as passively as *assuming* that I share their religious or political beliefs) I am at least mildly offended (irritated?). I am, however, always interested in peoples experiences and reasoned analysis of those experiences, including religious and political, though I'd prefer to hear about "spiritual" and "intellectual" experiences and considerations, I guess. - Steve > I don't remember anybody complaining about discussions of religion, per se. > I do remember a request that contempt or gratuitous nastiness not be a > part of such a discussion I would also urge everybody to bear in mind > that this is, after all, a list of people loosely self identified as > "complexiticists". But that hardly excludes any topic. > > Nick > > -----Original Message----- > From: friam-boun...@redfish.com [mailto:friam-boun...@redfish.com] On > Behalf Of Sarbajit Roy > Sent: Sunday, April 01, 2012 8:51 PM > To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group > Subject: Re: [FRIAM] So, *Are* We Alone? > > Dear Doug, > > (And being mindful that some/most people on this list don't want to be > inflicted with religious rants - so we can take this offlist hereafter ?? ). > > On the codicil, > > I can't agree that Islam is an Eastern Religion. It is as much a > Western religion as Judaism or Christianity is. All Western religions > are now proselytising religions which are geared to impose their will, > their leaders and prophets on the unwilling. Nonetheless, as per me, > Judaism is the most Eastern of these 3 religions and my own > religionists would straightway agree > (generally) with the first 4 of Judaism's principles as set down by, > say, Maimonides. > > ie. to say > > 1. The existence of God > 2. God's unity > 3. God's spirituality and incorporeality 4. God's eternity > > About 95% of my co-religionists would also agree with his 5th > principle > > 5. God alone should be the object of worship > > Unfortunately we cannot agree with any of the other 8 proselytising > Judaic principles. or 8 of the 10 Commandments of Christianity or 4 of > the 5 Pillars of Islam which are being collectively thrust on the East > by imperialist means for economic / political objectives. > > Sarbajit > > On 4/2/12, Douglas Roberts<d...@parrot-farm.net> wrote: >> Dear Sarbajit, >> >> I take your points, but with one codicil: The Muslim religion is >> also of eastern origin, and I suspect you will agree that the >> Islamic "Sunday School" teachings in today's fundamentalist Islamic >> countries are also somewhat problematic, for obvious reasons which we >> maybe don't want to dwell on here. >> >> --Doug >> >> On Sun, Apr 1, 2012 at 10:15 AM, Sarbajit Roy<sroy...@gmail.com> wrote: >> >>> Dear Doug >>> >>> What is taught in Sunday School is the problem with the "Christian" >>> religion which for the most part seems based on gospels, unprovable >>> historical events and parables etc. The ancient Eastern religions >>> Dave mentioned don't have that problem insofar as their core beliefs >>> are concerned >>> >>> For instance, my own religion's very ancient working principles can >>> be distilled into 4 or 5 sentences. I would really like to know >>> where and why you differ with me on them. >>> >>> 1) "GOD" (aka "Singularity"). Infinite, formless, beyond >>> description, ruling principle of existence. [Comment - In other >>> words there is a Unified Theory of Everything but "we" can never >>> know it.] >>> >>> 2) "SALVATION". There is no salvation and no way to achieve it. All >>> life exists to be consumed. There is neither Heaven nor Hell nor >>> rebirth. >>> >>> 3) "WORSHIP". There is no scripture, revelation, creation, prophet, >>> priest or teacher to be revered. Worship consist of revering the >>> "inner light within" (i.e. enlightened conscience / intelligence) >>> >>> 4) "CULTS". There is no distinction. (All men are equal. >>> Distinctions like caste, race, creed, colour, gender, nationality >>> etc. are artificial. There is no need for priests, places of >>> worship, long sermons etc. "Man-worship" or "God-men" are abhorent >>> to the faith and denounced since there is no mediator between man >>> and God) >>> >>> 5) "LIFE-FORMS" God / religion is not limited to "Man" alone, but >>> covers / permeates all "life" >>> >>> Sarbajit >>> > ============================================================ > FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe > at St. John's College lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at > http://www.friam.org > > > ============================================================ > FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe > at St. John's College lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at > http://www.friam.org ============================================================ FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org ============================================================ FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org
