As, oddly, no one seems to have mentioned it yet... I'm pretty sure that air does separate. Am I wrong to think that "air" at a high enough altitude is mostly hydrogen? So the question is not what keeps it from separating, but what keeps it from separating more fully... right?
Eric On Wed, Jun 13, 2012 01:13 AM, Steve Smith <sasm...@swcp.com> wrote: > > > Nick - > > > I'd like to interject here that your original question about the > mixing (or not) of atmospheric components was a very legitimate > question... > > > I hope (many) of the responses you got (Bruce's in particular) > helped dispel the mystery of what we all know circumstantially > (though I'm not sure most of us would notice if the O2 levels were > elevated after a quiet, still night?). > > > While I may personally have some specific experience (as anecdotally > described) with the formalities of these problems I think it is > assumed that most of us here do not! > > > The innocence of many of your questions as posed should be more > overtly valued... many of us are busy asking (quietly) similar or > related questions. > > > Don't let the unregulated banter that follows some of your questions > be mistaken for anything but what it is, a good excuse for banter... > Doug and I perhaps being the worst of the crowd for that. > > > So... I say let the discussion of mixtures and solutions and > miscibility continue... I have to admit that I have a "working" > knowledge of miscibility but not enough understanding of it's > foundations! > > > - Steve > > > > > > > > >> > > >SS > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > >But are you surprised that your bottle of > wine, beer, or hard liquor hasn't seperated before you even > get to pour it? > > > > > > > > > > > > > >NST > REPLIES: > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Well > I guess I am surprised by that. Whiskey (etc) is just a > mixture of alcohol and water,no? I suspect that there is > some sort of distinction lurking here between a “solution” > of something and a “mixture” of something. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >From: > <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="#">friam-boun...@redfish.com</a> > [<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="#">mailto:friam-boun...@redfish.com</a>] On Behalf Of Steve > Smith >Sent: Tuesday, June 12, 2012 3:45 PM >To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee > Group >Subject: Re: [FRIAM] atmospherics > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Nick - > > > I think Bruce just gave a good calibration on this with his > great description not only of why or why not to breathe > Uranium Hexaflouride (cuz you will have to stand on your head > to empty it from your lungs!) but also the relative density > of the gasses in question. > > > Try the analogy of mixed drinks. Every good bartender knows > that you put the alcohol into the glass first so that when you > add the water-based stuff (tonic, seltzer, juice, etc.) the > two mix naturally. If you pour the alcohol *over* the watery > things, you risk the alcohol "floating" rather than mixing. > We could go into the implications of low and high "proof" > alcohol, etc. > > > But are you surprised that your bottle of wine, beer, or hard > liquor hasn't seperated before you even get to pour it? > > > AS I think Doug mentioned, thermal energy alone is a good > mixer... even without the constant stirring of wind and > convection... > > > - Steve > > > > > > > > >Sorry. > Mixed up the weight of N and O. So my question should have > been, Why don’t we wake up in a layer of oxygen on still > nights? > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Which > brings us to your question about what would make me expect > that a mixture would separate out into its lighter and > heavier components. You tell me! Other things being equal, > don’t heavier things tend to sink when mixed with lighter > ones? > > > > > > > > > > > > > >N > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >From: > <a moz-do-not-send="" href="#">friam-boun...@redfish.com</a> > [<a moz-do-not-send="" href="#">mailto:friam-boun...@redfish.com</a>] > On Behalf Of Douglas Roberts >Sent: Tuesday, June 12, 2012 2:43 PM >To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee > Group >Subject: Re: [FRIAM] atmospherics > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Let's not ignore temperature: my farts are > a good 20 degrees F above ambient (at present), and tend to > rise before mixing into the unfortunate nearby environs. And, > just in case you were wondering what the composition of a fart > was: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >The > major components of the flatus, which are odorless, by > percentage are:<a moz-do-not-send="" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flatulence#cite_note-3"; onclick="window.open('http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flatulence#cite_note-3');return false;">[4]</a> > > > > > > > level1 lfo2;background:white">§ <a moz-do-not-send="" > href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nitrogen"; title="" > onclick="window.open('http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nitrogen');return > false;">Nitrogen</a>: > 20–90% > > > > > > > level1 lfo2;background:white">§ <a moz-do-not-send="" > href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydrogen"; title="" > onclick="window.open('http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydrogen');return > false;">Hydrogen</a>: > 0–50% > > > > > > > level1 lfo2;background:white">§ <a moz-do-not-send="" > href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carbon_dioxide"; title="" > onclick="window.open('http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carbon_dioxide');return > false;">Carbon > dioxide</a>: 10–30% > > > > > > > level1 lfo2;background:white">§ <a moz-do-not-send="" > href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oxygen"; title="" > onclick="window.open('http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oxygen');return > false;">Oxygen</a>: > 0–10% > > > > > > > level1 lfo2;background:white">§ <a moz-do-not-send="" > href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Methane"; title="" > onclick="window.open('http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Methane');return > false;">Methane</a>: > 0–10% > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >4. <a moz-do-not-send="" >href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flatulence#cite_ref-3"; >onclick="window.open('http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flatulence#cite_ref-3');return > false;">^</a> <a moz-do-not-send="" >href="http://www.britannica.com/eb/article-45361/human-digestive-system#294193.hook"; > >onclick="window.open('http://www.britannica.com/eb/article-45361/human-digestive-system#294193.hook');return > false;">"Human > Digestive System"</a>. Encyclopædia > Britannica. Retrieved 2007-08-22. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >--Doug > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >On Tue, Jun 12, 2012 at 12:33 PM, Roger > Critchlow <<a moz-do-not-send="" href="#" > target="">r...@elf.org</a>> > wrote: > > > > > > > > >Nick > -- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >N2 > weighs 28 gm/mole, O2 weighs 32 gm/mole, Ar weighs 40 > gm/mole, CO2 weighs 44 gm/mole, and H2O weighs 18 > gm/mole. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Why > would anyone expect the lighter components of a > mixture to fall down more than the heavier ones? If > anything, you'd expect the heavier ones to concentrate > toward the bottom. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >And > why would anyone expect a mixture to spontaneously > separate into pure components? That happens in real > life like where? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >As > it happens, CO2 is the heaviest normal component and > it does pool in confined spaces often enough that CO2 > alarms are available in hardware stores. Propane, > C3H8, weighs 44 gm/mole and is notorious for pooling > in confined spaces and then exploding, often in the > bilge of a boat and spectacularly. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >-- > rec -- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >On Tue, Jun 12, 2012 at 10:44 > AM, Nicholas Thompson <<a moz-do-not-send="" href="#" > target="">nickthomp...@earthlink.net</a>> > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >So, > somebody asked me, in my role as a weather > nerd, how come the nitrogen in the > atmosphere doesn’t all fall to the bottom on > still nights and suffocate us all. I asked > the question of <a moz-do-not-send="" > href="http://stupid-answers-to-stupid-questions-asked-by-stupid-people.com"; > target="" > onclick="window.open('http://stupid-answers-to-stupid-questions-asked-by-stupid-people.com');return > false;">stupid-answers-to-stupid-questions-asked-by-stupid-people.com</a> > and THEY said, well, there’s just too much > going on. N molecules and the O molecules > are just too busy, what with convection and > windcurrents, and all, to separate, even on > still nights. Now, that business doesn’t > prevent cold molecules of Nitrogen and > Oxygen to separate from warm ones, or wet > ones (not sure what that means) to separate > from dry ones. I was hoping that somebody on > FRIAM could give some sort of a clue what > kind of a mixture AIR is? It is suddenly > seeming kinda special. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Nicholas > S. Thompson > > > > > > >Emeritus > Professor of Psychology and Biology > > > > > > >Clark > University > > > > > > ><a moz-do-not-send="" >href="http://home.earthlink.net/%7Enickthompson/naturaldesigns/"; target="" >onclick="window.open('http://home.earthlink.net/%7Enickthompson/naturaldesigns/');return > false;">http://home.earthlink.net/~nickthompson/naturaldesigns/</a> > > > > > > ><a moz-do-not-send="" href="http://www.cusf.org/"; target="" >onclick="window.open('http://www.cusf.org/');return >false;">http://www.cusf.org</a> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ============================================================ > > > FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv > > > Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College > > > lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at <a moz-do-not-send="" href="http://www.friam.org"; onclick="window.open('http://www.friam.org');return false;">http://www.friam.org</a> > > > > > > > > > > > > > ============================================================ >FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv >Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College >lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" >href="http://www.friam.org"; >onclick="window.open('http://www.friam.org');return >false;">http://www.friam.org</a> > > > ============================================================ >FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv >Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College >lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org > Eric Charles Professional Student and Assistant Professor of Psychology Penn State University Altoona, PA 16601
============================================================ FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org
