Doug,
At the risk of going all relativistic on you, WTF do you mean by Societal degeneracy? I take it you are NOT a pacifist. So, it's not that gang members kill one another in defense of honor, or territory, or to control economic resources. After all, governments do that all the time, right? One of the things that is terrifying about gangs is how truly evolved they are. From the point of view of society at large, their flourishing is a DE-volution, but that's a matter of yours (and my) affection for hierarchical integration. As social organizations go, they are pretty "evolved." If the united states government were willing to spend the same sort of control to suppress gangs in your neighbor hood as it is to suppress gangs in Afganistan, I imagine they could clean things up pretty quick. Crikers, for what it costs to run the Afganistan war for a minute, they could have two soldiers with M-1's standing outside every house in Espanola indefinitely, right? The problem is not THEIR degeneracy, but OURS. We are unwilling to assert our control over them. Nick From: friam-boun...@redfish.com [mailto:friam-boun...@redfish.com] On Behalf Of Douglas Roberts Sent: Thursday, September 27, 2012 12:20 AM To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group Subject: Re: [FRIAM] faith The common theme, however, just to tie a bow on it, is societal degeneracy. On Sep 26, 2012 10:15 PM, "Douglas Roberts" <d...@parrot-farm.net> wrote: I suspect that the more sensitive members of this list will think that my last message was unnecessarily pejorative with respect to gangs, and gang members. It would probably therefore be foolish of me to suggest including child-abusing priests, scientologists, and more than a few of the military industrial profiteers in the "better off dead" list. So I won't. Best to quietly just resume the scholarly discussions about "faith". Don't you think? On Sep 26, 2012 10:03 PM, "Douglas Roberts" <d...@parrot-farm.net> wrote: Still, irrespective of whomever coined that old "fittest" rubric, dead gang members are far more productive members of society than live ones, I suspect. On Sep 26, 2012 9:48 PM, "Nicholas Thompson" <nickthomp...@earthlink.net> wrote: Darwinism only says that the least prolific will be eliminated. It says nothing about degeneracy, unless, of course profligacy is defined as "advanced." Spencer was the social Darwinist, not Darwin. In fact, it was SPENCER, who coined "the survival of the fittest", I believe. N From: friam-boun...@redfish.com [mailto:friam-boun...@redfish.com] On Behalf Of Douglas Roberts Sent: Wednesday, September 26, 2012 9:03 PM To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group Subject: Re: [FRIAM] faith Well, speaking from my own (apparent) semi-unique perspective: Darwin's proposition of "Survival of the Fittest" would seem to scream out for the elimination of degenerate components of society which threaten to bring the entire species to total extinction. And, being an engineer, I cannot but cheer and encourage any activity that speeds the destruction of those destructive elements of society. Like gang conflicts, for example. And religion, for another. Not that there is much difference, really. --Doug On Wed, Sep 26, 2012 at 6:33 PM, Roger Critchlow <r...@elf.org> wrote: On Wed, Sep 26, 2012 at 2:40 PM, Steve Smith <sasm...@swcp.com> wrote: Tory - Why is the idea of two differing but synergistic approaches so challenging to so many on this list? Or are you arguing for the fun of the game? I'm pretty sure both the Monkey and the Weasel are in it for the endorphins released. I don't think I'm talking about two differing approaches. Some beliefs are so common that no one even thinks about them. Many people deny that they're beliefs at all. Other beliefs extend and explain and modify the common ones in different ways. But I say we're all believers on this bus, some are just more conscious of it. -- rec -- ============================================================ FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org -- Doug Roberts drobe...@rti.org d...@parrot-farm.net http://parrot-farm.net/Second-Cousins 505-455-7333 - Office 505-670-8195 - Cell ============================================================ FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org
============================================================ FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org
