Nick, Longer answer required than I have time for today - extremely busy at work. I'll send something out this evening.
--Doug On Wed, Sep 26, 2012 at 11:02 PM, Nicholas Thompson < nickthomp...@earthlink.net> wrote: > Doug, **** > > ** ** > > At the risk of going all relativistic on you, WTF do you mean by Societal > degeneracy? I take it you are NOT a pacifist. So, it’s not that gang > members kill one another in defense of honor, or territory, or to control > economic resources. After all, governments do that all the time, right? > One of the things that is terrifying about gangs is how truly evolved they > are. From the point of view of society at large, their flourishing is a > DE-volution, but that’s a matter of yours (and my) affection for > hierarchical integration. As social organizations go, they are pretty > “evolved.” If the united states government were willing to spend the same > sort of control to suppress gangs in your neighbor hood as it is to > suppress gangs in Afganistan, I imagine they could clean things up pretty > quick. Crikers, for what it costs to run the Afganistan war for a minute, > they could have two soldiers with M-1’s standing outside every house in > Espanola indefinitely, right? The problem is not THEIR degeneracy, but > OURS. We are unwilling to assert our control over them. **** > > ** ** > > Nick **** > > ** ** > > *From:* friam-boun...@redfish.com [mailto:friam-boun...@redfish.com] *On > Behalf Of *Douglas Roberts > *Sent:* Thursday, September 27, 2012 12:20 AM > *To:* The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group > *Subject:* Re: [FRIAM] faith**** > > ** ** > > The common theme, however, just to tie a bow on it, is societal degeneracy. > **** > > On Sep 26, 2012 10:15 PM, "Douglas Roberts" <d...@parrot-farm.net> wrote:* > *** > > I suspect that the more sensitive members of this list will think that my > last message was unnecessarily pejorative with respect to gangs, and gang > members. It would probably therefore be foolish of me to suggest including > child-abusing priests, scientologists, and more than a few of the military > industrial profiteers in the "better off dead" list.**** > > So I won't.**** > > Best to quietly just resume the scholarly discussions about "faith".**** > > Don't you think?**** > > On Sep 26, 2012 10:03 PM, "Douglas Roberts" <d...@parrot-farm.net> wrote:* > *** > > Still, irrespective of whomever coined that old "fittest" rubric, dead > gang members are far more productive members of society than live ones, I > suspect.**** > > On Sep 26, 2012 9:48 PM, "Nicholas Thompson" <nickthomp...@earthlink.net> > wrote:**** > > Darwinism only says that the least prolific will be eliminated. It says > nothing about degeneracy, unless, of course profligacy is defined as > “advanced.” Spencer was the social Darwinist, not Darwin. In fact, it was > SPENCER, who coined “the survival of the fittest”, I believe. **** > > **** > > N**** > > **** > > *From:* friam-boun...@redfish.com [mailto:friam-boun...@redfish.com] *On > Behalf Of *Douglas Roberts > *Sent:* Wednesday, September 26, 2012 9:03 PM > *To:* The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group > *Subject:* Re: [FRIAM] faith**** > > **** > > Well, speaking from my own (apparent) semi-unique perspective: Darwin's > proposition of "Survival of the Fittest" would seem to scream out for the > elimination of degenerate components of society which threaten to bring the > entire species to total extinction.**** > > **** > > And, being an engineer, I cannot but cheer and encourage any activity that > speeds the destruction of those destructive elements of society. Like gang > conflicts, for example. And religion, for another. Not that there is much > difference, really.**** > > **** > > --Doug**** > > On Wed, Sep 26, 2012 at 6:33 PM, Roger Critchlow <r...@elf.org> wrote:**** > > On Wed, Sep 26, 2012 at 2:40 PM, Steve Smith <sasm...@swcp.com> wrote:**** > > Tory -**** > > **** > > Why is the idea of two differing but synergistic approaches so challenging > to so many on this list? Or are you arguing for the fun of the game?**** > > I'm pretty sure both the Monkey and the Weasel are in it for the > endorphins released.**** > > **** > > I don't think I'm talking about two differing approaches.**** > > **** > > Some beliefs are so common that no one even thinks about them. Many > people deny that they're beliefs at all. Other beliefs extend and explain > and modify the common ones in different ways. But I say we're all > believers on this bus, some are just more conscious of it.**** > > **** > > -- rec --**** > > **** > > > ============================================================ > FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv > Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College > lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org**** > > > > **** > > **** > > -- > Doug Roberts > drobe...@rti.org > d...@parrot-farm.net**** > > http://parrot-farm.net/Second-Cousins**** > > > 505-455-7333 - Office > 505-670-8195 - Cell**** > > **** > > > ============================================================ > FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv > Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College > lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org**** > > ============================================================ > FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv > Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College > lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org > -- Doug Roberts drobe...@rti.org d...@parrot-farm.net http://parrot-farm.net/Second-Cousins <http://parrot-farm.net/Second-Cousins> 505-455-7333 - Office 505-670-8195 - Cell
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